Nicole - The Impacts of Parental Incarceration & Registration on Children - Season 3 - Episode 1

In the opening episode of Season 3, Amber and Jason speak with Nicole, a sixteen-year-old girl who authentically shares the experience of having her life turned upside-down at age twelve when her father was arrested, incarcerated and eventually placed on a public registry. Her journey winds from the initial shock, how she was treated at school, to visiting her father while he was incarcerated, to what happened when he was finally able to come home. She also covers how probation restrictions and public registration affect the entire family and what the adults dealing with children with incarcerated parents can do to help. Her most fervent wish in telling her story is to make sure that other kids facing this difficult road know that they are not alone.

Transcript

AV PODCAST TRANSCRIPT, Nicole, Season 3, Episode 1, Feb 2, 2022

Announcer: [00:00:00] Support for Amplified Voices comes from the Restorative Action Foundation. Learn more at restorativeactionalliance. org. 

Announcer 2: Everyone has a voice, a story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. What if there were a way to amplify those stories? To have conversations with real people in real communities. A way to them step into the power of their lived experience.

Announcer 2: Welcome to Amplified Voices, a podcast, lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. Together, we can create positive change for everyone.

Jason: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Amplified Voices. I'm your host, Jason, here with my co host, Amber. Hello, Amber. 

Amber: Hi, Jason. Happy to be here. 

Jason: Awesome. And today we have a guest that's [00:01:00] a little bit different from some of our other guests. Her name is Nicole. Nicole is 16 years old and she is going to tell us a little bit about how her family got involved with the criminal legal system.

Jason: Good morning, Nicole. 

Nicole: Good morning, Jason. 

Jason: Nice to see you. So we will ask a version of the same first question that we've asked everybody. And that is, tell us a little bit about your family and your family life before your family became involved in the criminal legal system. 

Nicole: Well, I had a fairly normal childhood.

Nicole: I have two parents. I have a sister and two brothers. So I'm in the middle. Everything was pretty good. We moved around a lot, which was actually a really great experience. And I think a lot of my maturity, I guess, came from that. Cause I experienced a lot of different types of people and different settings.

Jason: Yeah, and I think if you're [00:02:00] moving around a lot, going into new school systems, you have to meet people and you have to kind of make friends quickly. 

Nicole: Yeah, for sure. 

Jason: Right. So it's definitely a good learning experience as you're growing up. 

Nicole: Yeah, for sure. I really liked it. I'm very grateful that I had the opportunity because in the town I'm in now, which is very small, it's not something you hear a lot.

Nicole: A lot of people have been here their whole lives. And so I'm glad I had the experience. 

Jason: What did you do for fun? I mean, did you have like activities? Were you involved in sports or music? 

Nicole: It was usually music and kind of the creative side of things. I always liked art and music and I did try sports out for a little bit, but it didn't really end up being my thing.

Nicole: What was your favorite subject in school? Science for sure. Or English, kind of both of those, I would say. 

Jason: So something happens. 

Nicole: So, um, my dad, when I was [00:03:00] 12 or 13, he was brought into the legal system. And at first I wasn't fully aware of what was going on. I just kind of knew something was off because obviously he wasn't here.

Nicole: And at first I thought maybe he was like on a small trip or something like that. But. My mom kind of, I could tell something was off with her and she came and finally told me, and I genuinely like, could not believe it. I just didn't really know how to react. It was one of those things where I was like young and didn't understand the legal system and, you know, it was just a big.

Nicole: Bomb just dropped right in my life. 

Jason: How many days between when your father was arrested and you found out the labs? 

Nicole: She ended up telling me maybe like a week into it. 

Jason: So your father was [00:04:00] arrested and he was not able to be released. So he was held and just away from home for some time. And so as far as you know, it's like, it was unusual that your father wasn't around, but parents go on vacation.

Jason: People go away. He could have been sick. You don't know. And so then your mother comes to you and says, your father is in jail. And so. At 12 years old, what are you able to process and what did your mother tell you? 

Nicole: I think when she first told me, it was kind of vague because she knew I wouldn't really understand as well as my siblings.

Nicole: I was just kind of told that he was in jail and that She would tell me more about the situation later, which she ended up doing. But the details I knew, I of course tried to think of every scenario and possibility of what could be happening. I would definitely say like the first night that I [00:05:00] had to sleep after knowing that it was the worst.

Nicole: It was definitely the worst. Cause I just remember waking up and being like, Oh, that's real. Like that really happened. 

Amber: Nicole, you said you were living in a small town and after your father was arrested, did you find that there was media coverage or were people talking about it? Tell us a little bit about that.

Nicole: Yeah, very small town. What somebody ate that morning, everybody finds out. Five minutes later, everybody finds out. So, I remember maybe two weeks into it, I went to school and I think I may have told one of my friends because of course, I felt extremely alone and I didn't really know what to do. So, Maybe she had told someone or it was the media or people's parents telling their kids, something like that.

Nicole: I could definitely tell people were off and they were giving me a kind [00:06:00] of weird vibe looking at me differently. And it didn't feel good because I knew why. And I knew that there was definitely something going on. And I think at that point, once that started happening, I knew what the situation was and why he was in jail.

Nicole: So. Yeah, it was, it was not fun and I did not want to go to school. There was obviously supportive friends that told me it would be okay. And they would have comments they would make to me that were like trying to be comforting, but they weren't. 

Jason: That experience just sounds horrible. At 12, you're getting attention you really don't want.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: Because at 12 years old, you don't want to stand out. Exactly. How long had you lived in this particular community before this happened? 

Nicole: Um Maybe just a little bit over a year. 

Jason: Okay. So again, you're still relatively the new girl. You look for everything when [00:07:00] you're that age, right. To point out people's differences or whatever.

Jason: So 

Nicole: yeah, 

Jason: it's gotta be a horrible experience. Were you able to share that with your mother, with your brothers, your sister, or were you holding it inside? 

Nicole: I think I wanted to, but I also was trying to think about how everybody else was stressed out. And I was kind of afraid, which obviously this wasn't the case, but I was 12.

Nicole: I was a little bit nervous about bringing it up just because I didn't want to make it. Worse for my mom and my siblings, you know, I'm a very anxious person. So that was definitely something I was scared to bring up. 

Amber: So Nicole, tell us a little bit about how teachers responded to you. Did you find them to be supportive?

Amber: Did your mom go to the school and talk to them or what kind of happened with that? So I did 

Nicole: have one teacher that was actually very supportive, but the [00:08:00] others There was some sort of different way I think they were treating me. I don't really know how to explain it and I could have just been overthinking it, but I think there definitely was something that was off.

Nicole: They didn't treat me differently in the sense of like grades or anything like that. It was just kind of like less eye contact and kind of 

Amber: just a weird vibe. Do you think maybe they found themselves in a situation where they didn't know how to respond? For sure. I think it was definitely something like that.

Jason: It sounds to me like you were trying to fit in and blend into this community and all of a sudden you find yourself as an outsider. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: And really made to feel like you're separate in this particular community that you're in was having an incarcerated parent, normal. 

Nicole: No, not even a little. 

Jason: So it's not like you have other people to [00:09:00] turn to, to talk to about it.

Jason: You're feeling very much alone. 

Nicole: Yeah, that was my main problem. I felt very alone. I didn't know who to talk to about it. I actually remember my very close friend at the time I brought it up to her and It was an interesting reaction. I mean, once again, we were 12, I don't expect some crazy pep talk, but I could definitely tell it was an uncomfortable topic and it discouraged me for sure, because that was my close friend and I didn't know what else or who else to go to.

Nicole: Like I said before, I didn't want to worry my mom or my siblings. So I didn't want to bring it up to them. 

Jason: We're going to get into some other things like what life was like when your father was incarcerated and other things like that, but. You've had four years now. Has there been long lasting impact?

Jason: Have things changed? Have they changed for the better of the change of the [00:10:00] worst? What's it been like that whole journey? And of course we have two years that have been pandemic. So, I mean, that doesn't help either. 

Nicole: Yeah, I think definitely I've been more weary about things. Cause like I said, I'm an anxious person and I think any traumatic experience like that definitely makes that anxiety worse.

Nicole: So there's always that thought in the back of my head when I'm trying to make new friends, where it's like, Oh, is this going to be an issue? Is this going to be a problem? Are they going to find out and then not want to be my friend? You know, that's definitely the main thing, but also. Experiences like that, definitely mature people.

Jason: You know, you're glad to be the person you are today and have the life experience, but you don't wish anybody else to have to go through it. 

Nicole: Never. Oh my goodness. Never. 

Jason: And you'd rather have not gone through it and just had the knowledge and the experience. 

Amber: Yeah, exactly. [00:11:00] Nicole, you mentioned like incarceration was not a normal thing in your community.

Amber: Did you learn about the legal system? What did you think about it before and what did you learn through having somebody actually impacted by it in your family? 

Nicole: I definitely had a very different opinion than I do now. Because of course, in all the movies and shows I watched, it was just like, Oh, that guy's in jail.

Nicole: He doesn't matter. It was just, you're in jail. You're in jail. That's it. But now I definitely have a much different view on that for sure. I did educate myself once I turned like 13, maybe 14. That's when I started actually looking into it and wanting to learn more. 

Jason: You know, when you say you didn't really think about it much before 12, you were subject to references to jail or lock them up or all that stuff on a regular basis.

Jason: I mean, that's just in our culture. It starts with cartoons, right? I mean, you think about some of the cartoons you [00:12:00] watched as a kid and there's references to jail and it's criminals are bad, lock them up and we don't want to see them. 

Nicole: Yeah, I did have that preconceived opinion, for sure, because all the shows I was watching, there was definitely references to jail.

Nicole: I definitely had some sort of opinion. 

Jason: So, your father was convicted, yes? 

Nicole: Yes. 

Jason: And your father then was sentenced to time in a prison. 

Nicole: Yes. 

Jason: So what was your life like during that time, trying to stay connected with him? What were your feelings about him, you know, that sort of thing? 

Nicole: I had no different opinion of him because I know my dad, that wasn't an issue, but I was definitely very, very nervous to go visit him just because I had no idea what that was going to be like.

Nicole: And I hadn't seen him in [00:13:00] so long that it was like, what are we going to talk about? What can I talk about? It was just a lot of overthinking. 

Amber: So Nicole, was your dad far away? Was he near wherever he was incarcerated? 

Nicole: From our house, he was pretty far, almost an hour, maybe a little less. I think I only visited maybe two or three times cause it was far.

Nicole: It was a stressful situation, but I did obviously want to see him. 

Jason: So he was in for a year. You're 12 years old, and I'm assuming you saw him every single day of your life leading up to that. Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Jason: And now it's a big deal for you to get together and see him and you only get to do it two or three times.

Nicole: Yeah. It was a big change. 

Jason: So that's got to have a huge impact in your day to day life and outlook on the world. 

Nicole: Yeah, [00:14:00] it really did. I just remember absolutely not knowing even what to think because that's just one of those things where it's just genuinely a bomb dropped on your life. Like you can't do anything about it.

Jason: And I'm assuming that your mother had to pick up some of the slack. You know, there's a lot of work that your mother's doing and trying to arrange these visits for you. So that must have added some stress for you as well. 

Nicole: Yeah, I hated having to see that because I love my mom and she's a very strong woman and she definitely did a lot, a lot, a lot.

Nicole: So sorry, I'm trying not to cry. 

Amber: No, it's okay. When we talk about these types of issues, it's important that people understand what happens to families when they have somebody impacted by the criminal legal system. It really shouldn't be on a child to bear that burden, but there's not a lot of ways around it.

Amber: [00:15:00] Yeah. This massive impact separation. You're a middle child. It sounds like maybe you had younger siblings, you had older siblings. Everybody was having their own experience. Yeah. I really appreciate you authentically sharing some of that with us. 

Nicole: Of course. I think it was one of those situations where I didn't want to say anything to my mom to stress her out and she didn't want to say anything to me to stress me out because both of us were more worried about the other person's feelings.

Nicole: Then our own, of course, because when you love someone, that's what happens. But yeah, I think that was one of my main concerns, just like making sure that my mom and my siblings were okay, for sure. 

Amber: Nicole, you mentioned that you did visit, tell us a little bit about that experience. 

Nicole: I remember sitting in the parking lot for at least 10 minutes because I was just like terrified.

Nicole: I didn't know what was going to be [00:16:00] happening. But once we finally got in there, I think seeing other people, I think there was maybe one other person that was like 19 around there, which is close enough for me. I was like, at least I'm seeing kind of a younger person. I think I was fine. Once I got in there, I put my stuff in the lockers.

Nicole: Cause you can't walk in there with anything. I made sure my outfit was appropriate. Whatever I go through and I was very intimidated by the officer in there. He was a big dude. Yeah, and I didn't really know how to act, but I just remember seeing, I think, a couple layers of just bars that would automatically open and then there was a room that we just stood in and we just waited for the inmates to come and they came in a single file line.

Nicole: And I couldn't see my dad at [00:17:00] first, but once I did, I just broke down into tears. It was just, it was very, very odd seeing him like that, but I was obviously super excited to see him, but I wish he could have. Looked more like himself. You can take a moment if you need to. Thank you.

Nicole: Yeah. I can certainly appreciate what it's like to 

Jason: see a parent in that condition and what the shock must've been, and that's an image you'll have with you. That's probably going to shape your views of the world going forward. 

Nicole: For sure. It was not a good feeling, but at least he's not in there anymore. So 

Jason: when you were going through the security and walking in, did you feel like you were being judged?

Jason: Were they respectful to you? 

Nicole: [00:18:00] I remember the main officer, the guy that was getting us through the metal detector, whatever it was, he talked like I had done something wrong. And I think it's probably just because he works in a jail, but it didn't feel good because I was already going into a very stressful situation and I kind of hoped I would be, you know, In a more comfortable situation, but of course I wouldn't be, it's a jail.

Amber: You mentioned that they came in in a single file line and all of that. So then how did they get from a single file line to like visiting with their families? What did that look like for you? 

Nicole: This may have been at the end, but I think you're allowed to reach over this wall and give one hug, nothing else, and then everybody is sat down in this kind of cafeteria esque thing, but there's a divider.[00:19:00] 

Nicole: in between because we weren't allowed to reach over or interact at all like that. 

Jason: So it sounds to me what you're describing is almost like a long table with a divider down the middle and family members are on one side and People who are incarcerated on the other and you have other people on either side of you.

Nicole: Yes. 

Jason: And you're trying to talk over a wall at your father. 

Nicole: Mm hmm. 

Jason: And you're allowed one awkward hug and then you sit down and you're having some sort of a conversation in this very open public environment with a lot of people right on top of you. Does that paint the right picture? 

Amber: Yes, that's very accurate.

Amber: In my experience, it was like, okay, everybody's staring at you. People are behind you waiting for their hug. Right? Yeah. So they're like, get out of the way so that I can hug my love. You know what I mean? 

Jason: Oh, it's as you walk in before you can get to the table. [00:20:00] 

Nicole: Yes. It was very similar. It was. super stressful.

Nicole: I was trying to see what was going on with everyone else. And I was trying to keep to myself, but I also wanted to make sure I wasn't getting in anyone's way, but yeah, it was super awkward. It didn't feel normal in the slightest bit. It was very uncomfortable. I just didn't like how people are being treated at all.

Nicole: It wasn't nice. 

Jason: When you say the way people are treated, like the way you felt uncomfortable walking in with the interaction with the guard and they're doing something similar to other people, I mean, were they kicking people out because they weren't dressed appropriately, as you mentioned in the beginning or.

Nicole: Yeah, that actually did happen. I did see someone that wasn't allowed to come in and visit because they had a tank top on, so they had to just go home. Couldn't do anything about it. And yeah, I could tell when they would tell the inmates, like, sit down, do this, do that. I was like, I [00:21:00] can only imagine what it's like when people aren't visiting.

Nicole: I didn't like it. 

Jason: Tell us a little bit, please, Nicole, about homecoming. 

Nicole: When I first realized it was the day, I was super excited and I was under the impression that he was just gonna show up like my mom was gonna pick him up or something like that, but we had to go to a hotel because he wasn't legally allowed to come back home.

Nicole: This was in a different state. And so we stayed in the hotel. He did seem a little bit disoriented just because it was obviously very different being out for the first time in so long. And we had lunch together. It was great. But at the same time, there was still that little part of me that was just like, I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable.

Nicole: Well, You know, so I stuck by him and I walked by him cause I know he was [00:22:00] definitely a little anxious and of course he was probably thinking, oh, everyone's looking at me, everybody knows, which they probably didn't, but I just wanted to make sure he was okay. And it was as normal as it could be. 

Amber: So Nicole, why was it that he could not come back to the house?

Amber: Cause oftentimes what we see is like somebody doesn't have their home approved by probation or parole or something like that. Did you even know what was going on or why that happened? I didn't 

Nicole: know at the time, and I still am not a hundred percent sure, but I think it did have something to do with the probation and that whole thing, because I don't think it was fully sorted out 

Amber: yet.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Amber: And so you had this whole anticipation. You were like, Oh, you know, dad's coming home today. And it was completely different than what you expected. 

Nicole: Yeah, of course it didn't feel good. Cause I really was super excited for him to be able to [00:23:00] sleep in his bed and see his dogs. And of course that did happen, but not as soon as we had hoped.

Nicole: So yeah, that was definitely a surprise. 

Jason: What was that span in terms of the timeline between when he was released and when he was allowed to go home? 

Nicole: I think it was about six days. 

Jason: So what an unsettling time. I think when you're dealing with the legal system, nothing happens quickly. Nothing happens when you expect it's going to happen.

Jason: So they say to you, your father's releasing, you think, Oh, he's coming home. And no, this is going to happen at some point, but we don't know when, and it feels like forever. So he finally comes home, And you've been functioning as a family for a year without him picking up the pieces and did he just slide right back into the family dynamic and everything went back to the way it was before, or were there changes that were made?[00:24:00] 

Nicole: We gave him some time to just enjoy being home and, you know, being able to be in his bed and relax. But once it got a little further into it, I didn't know whether to try and make him feel more comfortable and, you know. Have him do the dishes like he used to, or if he wanted to kind of just chill out.

Nicole: You're dehumanized when you go to jail. So I wanted him to feel as normal as possible. That was like my main thing, because at that point I had done my research and I just, I felt so awful because I knew more at that point. And so I just wanted him to feel normal. 

Amber: You mentioned you have a younger brother.

Nicole: Yes. He. Obviously didn't know what was going on. And we just said, you know, dad's on a trip. He'll be back the best we could do. But he was just happy to have dad back. [00:25:00] 

Jason: So life goes back to some new normal. 

Nicole: Yeah. New normal. 

Jason: So you were going to school and interacting in the world and you had a few years go by.

Jason: Did anything else change? Was there other stuff that you were worried about? 

Nicole: I think my main worry, honestly, was just school. I was going into high school after it happened, but I was still very, Worried about if people would have some sort of preconceived notion about me or because my older sister went to the same school and I know that her friends did know because of course it's all over the internet.

Nicole: It's all out there. So yeah, I was scared about that. I think that was the main change, just trying to kind of see what I was going to do and how I was going to do with my new friends and stuff like that. 

Jason: Did he have to do anything? Was he on any type of probation, parole, or any type of special requirements that made [00:26:00] life a little different for you?

Nicole: Yes. That was another thing. He is on probation. He can't go inside my high school, which does affect a lot. That obviously is also hard on my mom, especially when she was working so much. So sometimes it was my siblings, you know, we had to get around that. That still is an issue for sure. 

Jason: When you say he was unable to come to the school, was that a probation requirement or was your father required to be on the sex offense registry?

Nicole: Yes, he was. 

Jason: I see. Okay, so he had both restrictions, both probation as well as all the things that come along with being on the registry. 

Nicole: Yes. 

Jason: Okay, thank you. 

Nicole: You're welcome. 

Jason: So let me just ask you, I know he's your father, but is the world safer because he can't go to these places? 

Nicole: No, not even a little. 

Jason: So you don't think there's any benefit to this stuff, but you've taken a family cost.

Jason: It's taken a toll. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jason: And tell us a [00:27:00] little more about what that's done in terms of, do you have any stories about when it's been tough on your family or on you? 

Nicole: Yes, so I have a little brother, like I said, and there was quite a few times that I've had to walk in the school while my dad waits and get my brother, walk him out, and it's a very awkward and uncomfortable situation because I don't know who knows what.

Nicole: And I kind of just have to do it, keep my eyes down and do it because I'm very anxious and it's definitely nerve wracking knowing that at least somebody in that school knows what's going on and they're talking about it or they're thinking about it or they're saying, Oh, is he near the school? Is something crazy going to happen?

Nicole: It was just a lot of instances like that, where I got looks or I had to. 

Jason: Was it from the students or from the staff and the [00:28:00] teachers or both? 

Nicole: I would say these specific instances, it was mostly the staff because obviously the kids mostly didn't know what was going on because at this time I was out of the school my younger brother was in.

Nicole: So I didn't really know a lot of the students, but yeah, I knew the staff and we would have to make specific arrangements with that staff. So I knew that they knew, and I obviously don't know how they feel about it. 

Jason: And nobody's come up to you and ever said, Hey, things are going to be okay. And we got your back or anything like that.

Nicole: I've obviously had friends that have done that for me, but I think it's just uncomfortable for other people as well because they don't know how to approach it. 

Jason: Now, what about stuff that happens online? Does that cause any issues? Are there teacher meetings that happen on Zoom or something that he can't participate in?

Nicole: There's been issues like that too. He [00:29:00] has a 24 hour surveillance thing on his Android. He can't freely browse and have social media, nothing like that. 

Jason: So any interaction with the school has to go through your mother? 

Nicole: Usually, yes. 

Jason: I'm assuming before this all happened, he was a very active parent and making those connections with the teachers and stuff like that.

Nicole: Yes. 

Jason: And ever since he can't do that anymore. 

Nicole: Yeah, I think he enjoyed that too, because he liked knowing what was happening with my school and he still does, but it's a lot more difficult because he can't as easily just contact my teachers. 

Amber: So Nicole, I wanted to ask you about friendships, you know, obviously being 16, there may be other relationships.

Amber: What is it like when you meet somebody new or, you know, you're trying to form friendships? As it kind of relates to this situation, does it [00:30:00] affect it at all or friends over at the house or things like that? Tell us a little bit about that. 

Nicole: Yeah, that's still an issue. I'm not allowed to have friends over at my house.

Nicole: And I'm 16, so that's a big thing right now because it's the time in my life where it's like, I'm always wanting to hang out with my friends and we're always trying to find somewhere to hang out. And it's just automatically not my house, guys. And now that I'm making, you know, new friends in different groups of friends.

Nicole: I have to explain that and it has affected some friendships because I have had friends that I think have kind of distanced themselves from me just because I don't know if it makes them uncomfortable or if it's something they just don't really want to deal with. I would never do that to someone, but some people just don't really know how to deal with it, which is okay.

Nicole: But [00:31:00] yeah, it doesn't feel great and it does contribute to my anxiety with meeting new people and making new friends for sure. 

Amber: Are there certain places or things maybe that your family doesn't go or things that you don't do because maybe you don't want to have your dad feeling left out of it? 

Nicole: Yes, absolutely.

Nicole: Before this happened, we used to go out to dinner all the time and we still do because he doesn't have a restriction from, you know, restaurants and stuff like that, but it's definitely less because I think my dad also has anxiety now with being in public because he doesn't know what people know and there's obviously some irrational fear, but.

Nicole: That's obviously going to happen when something like that happens to you. And he's definitely had some experiences where people have not been kind. So [00:32:00] it's definitely changed, but I think we're starting to get a little more comfortable, but it's still not going to be the same. Sadly. 

Amber: Is your dad able to like take your little brother to the park?

Amber: No, or if you're going on vacation or something, do you have to worry about where you can or can't go? Yeah, we had 

Nicole: to deal with that on vacation. There was instances where we wanted to take my younger brother somewhere and my dad wants to have a good bond with his youngest son, of course, and he wants to be able to take him to, you know, the skate park or to the bouncy houses or whatever.

Nicole: But that's just, you know, Not allowed. So we would have to have either me or my siblings bring him instead. And it definitely takes a toll on my dad, because it's not a great feeling knowing that you can't take your son to go do the things that he wants to do. [00:33:00] 

Amber: As you're telling this story. And I thank you so much for being so open and sharing.

Amber: I know this is not an easy thing to do when you think about other kids. That may find themselves in a situation either like with an incarcerated parent or their family, essentially being on the registry, right? Because it does affect the whole family. What are things that you might like them? 

Nicole: I just wanna say, first off, you're not alone because that is something I, oh, I would've loved to hear because I felt so alone.

Nicole: But you're not. There's people going through the same thing. There's people that understand and it's gonna be okay at some point. It's not the end of your life. I know. It feels like it. But it's going to be okay and you can get through it and you're strong. 

Amber: Do you feel that through this journey, you've learned [00:34:00] some empathy that sometimes everything isn't as it seems?

Amber: Sometimes people are going through things you don't understand. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? 

Nicole: That's definitely something that I am so appreciative that I learned from this, because now somebody does something to me or does something that everybody's kind of judging them for. I can think first and think, Oh, well, what's happening at home?

Nicole: You know, what's going on with them? I think I've definitely learned a lot more empathy and that obviously comes with growing up too, but I think I would not be at my maturity level. That hadn't have happened when this whole thing happened. It was like, oh my gosh, this is a movie. This doesn't happen in real life.

Nicole: Like this is not really happening to me right now. And my family, like it's one of those things. So I kind of have to realize that everybody has their issues that they won't necessarily [00:35:00] share. Cause I didn't share for a very long time with a lot of my friends. So I definitely learned a lot more empathy and understand more.

Jason: You definitely have demonstrated that you've grown a lot in that empathy that you're talking about. A lot of the people that you interacted with who are adults have never learned that lesson either. So. If you could speak directly to those teachers or staff, that adult, what message would you like them to hear about how they could have better supported you through the process?

Nicole: I just wish there would have been more support and them trying to make me feel more comfortable because if I would have had that, it would have made things extremely different. Because it's one thing for the students to be making faces or comments or whatever. But when there's adults doing it, it's like, wow, these are grown people and they are doing this to a child.[00:36:00] 

Nicole: It's just unbelievable what social media and what people say about the system and people that are in the system can seriously make someone think. So differently of a person, even someone's daughter. It's just crazy. 

Amber: Did you find that maybe you were in situations where somebody may not have been saying something directly about you or your situation, but they might make jokes about incarceration or jail or say something and you felt awkward or you felt like you wanted to say something about it, but didn't know how.

Amber: Yeah, 

Nicole: actually, when I was still in middle school, we were reading a book and it was about somebody that was incarcerated or maybe that was just involved in it. And I was like, everybody's staring at me right now. Like everybody's thinking about me and my family right now, which probably wasn't the case.

Nicole: But, you know, there probably was a few people that were [00:37:00] like, Oh yeah, I know that has to do with her, you know, but there was definitely times like that. People have actually said things directly to my face about it. And I just have not known how to react because like I was saying before with the empathy, I just kind of have to sit there and be like, they just don't understand, just let it go.

Jason: Do you worry that your address is on the registry? 

Nicole: Oh, it is. Yeah, it's definitely there. They don't care what's online. There's pictures of me and my siblings just out there, like, connected to the case, which I just find absolutely ridiculous because I don't think that's okay. 

Jason: But that's horrific. 

Amber: It's definitely not something that anybody would want for themselves or their children.

Amber: Exactly. 

Jason: Yeah. I mean, theoretically the registry is supposed to be protecting [00:38:00] children. And in this case, it sounds a lot like children have been harmed. You know, I think we've covered a lot. You've been incredibly brave. You've come through something that so many people have, unfortunately, but so many people, as you know, haven't.

Jason: And you're here to tell about it. You're ready to take off in this world and do some good. 

Nicole: So that's very nice. Thank you. 

Jason: Are there positive ways this has changed you and how do you think it might impact your life going forward in positive ways? I mean, we've talked about the negative and there are so many negatives, obviously, but we always like to leave on positive notes.

Nicole: I've learned, and my whole family has learned to not take things for granted. And. We definitely got closer from this because now I can't leave my house without saying I love you. Never, because you don't know what's going to happen. So 

Jason: do you think you'll get involved in organizing and advocacy type [00:39:00] work?

Nicole: If I had the opportunity, absolutely. I would love to help people understand or give them a new perspective. That would feel great. 

Amber: That seems like what you're doing right now by being here today. Actually, yeah, I didn't even think about that. 

Jason: Absolutely. So if you had a politician in front of you who could actually have an influence in terms of changing laws, what would you say?

Nicole: I would just kind of try and give them an understanding of what I went through and what a lot of other kids or family members go through, because I think. Hearing the experience and how it affects not just that person, but also their family that can do a number on someone for sure. 

Jason: Do you see anything specific that you'd want to have changed or just generally?

Nicole: There's a lot that I think should change. [00:40:00] I don't know if I could get into all of that right now, but I think people need to look into it more and see that this thing that's supposed to be protecting people. They should think, what is it doing to the rest of the people that are involved? Because I don't think people think about that.

Nicole: I think they want to just get it over with quick and easy and lock them up. And it's done. 

Amber: So do you think that registry laws are fair? Oh, no. If you had a politician in front of you, would you say, I think we should end this thing? Yes, I would absolutely say, 

Nicole: get it out of here. 

Jason: Again, it's been great talking to you and getting to know you a little bit, you know, you took a Saturday to come and talk with us.

Jason: And that says something right there that you want to make a difference. And also maybe a kid could listen to it and say, Hey, somebody else has been through this. Or like we said, have a teacher listen to it [00:41:00] and know how to act next time or something like that. So I think there's a lot of good that can come out of this episode.

Jason: And again, thank you so much, Nicole, for being with us, Amber, do you have any closing thoughts for Nicole? 

Amber: Nicole, I want to echo what Jason said about thanking you for taking the time, because I know this is not an easy thing to do. I would also like to commend you on, you know, you talked about how much you've grown.

Amber: And the things that you've learned and being willing to share that with other kids, because I know in my own experience and with my own kids, there were times where they really felt alone. And then also as a parent, you're trying to hold everything together and you're trying to do the best you can, but you're only one person.

Amber: So my hope for this podcast is that maybe somebody who I'm sorry, maybe somebody who is living this life, hears [00:42:00] it and knows they're not alone or a parent knows, Hey, this is what I need to talk to my kid about, because this is what they're feeling. Yeah. So I really can't thank you enough. Of course. Thank you.

Jason: Until next time, Amber. 

Amber: We'll see you next time.

Announcer: You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a podcast listing the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. For more information, episodes and podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoices. show.