Barbara Fair - Stop Solitary CT - Season 2 Episode 5

Barbara Fair is a licensed clinical social worker and social justice activist with Stop Solitary Connecticut who has worked tirelessly for decades to improve prison conditions, bring awareness to the impact incarceration has on children and families, and demand accountability for state violence as it relates to police departments and correctional facilities in Connecticut. She has long called for the abolition of solitary confinement, testifying in support of and organizing on behalf of many legislative reforms.

Amber and Jason caught up with Barbara a few days after a major public hearing for the PROTECT Act (Connecticut Senate Bill 1059) that calls for an end to extreme isolation and abusive restraints, promotes social bonds, ensures the shut down of Northern Correctional Institution, reforms data collection and improves oversight & accountability.  Barbara shared personal stories dating back to the ‘60s through present times. 

Information about Stop Solitary Connecticut and the PROTECT Act  can be found at https://www.stopsolitaryct.org/.

During the show, Barbara also referred to the film The Worst of the Worst: Portrait of a Supermax Prison, a production of the Yale Visual Law Project. The film depicts Connecticut’s sole supermax prison (Northern Correctional) where many inmates are held in solitary confinement for months and even years at a time.  You can watch the film at https://vimeo.com/user7522770/httpvimeocomworstoftheworst.

Transcript

AV PODCAST TRANSCRIPT, Barbara Fair, Season 2, Episode 5, April 1, 2021

Announcer: [00:00:00] Support for Amplified Voices comes from the Restorative Action Foundation. Learn more at restorativeactionalliance. org.

Announcer: Everyone has a voice, a story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. What if there were a way to amplify those stories? To have conversations with real people in real communities. a way to help them step into the power of their lived experience. Welcome to Amplified Voices, a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system.

Announcer: Together, we can create positive change for everyone.

Jason: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Amplified Voices. I'm your host, Jason, here with my co host, Amber. Hello, Amber. 

Amber: Good morning, Jason. Happy to be here this morning. 

Jason: Today, we have a guest who is well known [00:01:00] around Connecticut and we'll be introducing her to many more across the country because her work is very important.

Jason: Good morning, Barbara. 

Barbara: Good morning, and thank you for the invite. 

Jason: We're very glad to have you here today and very honored. No, it was a very busy week for you and we'll get into that later, but the first question we have is Can you tell us a little bit about your life before you became involved with the criminal legal system?

Jason: And what happened to pull you in? 

Barbara: Okay, born and raised in New Haven spent most of my life in the Hill area. And as far back as I can think, there's been some level of involvement in the criminal justice system, even as a child, the furthest thought was getting a ticket for jaywalking. I can't remember the full memory.

Barbara: I just remember I was crossing Washington Avenue to go to Truman School, and the officer gave me a ticket and it was for [00:02:00] jaywalking. And I remember when I look back, I didn't even know what jaywalking was. But you know, later on in life, I realized, oh, that's what I got a ticket for. 

Jason: Oh my 

Barbara: goodness. Wow.

Jason: Welcome to America. 

Barbara: Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Barbara: Especially being black in America. You know, we just have those special interactions with police at a very young age. So the next memory I have of the police was as a child, my parents were back then they called it bookmakers. I guess they took bets. People played numbers. I remember the people calling or coming by and giving my parents the money to gamble.

Barbara: And then my parents had to hand the money at the end of the week to somebody else, which I never knew who that was. And then if somebody hit the number My parents would pay them out. So I remember one day the police raided our home and I was a kid. And when I look back, all I can remember [00:03:00] is the anger, the rage.

Barbara: I felt so bad for my parents, the way that the police were treating them. So yeah, I remember that being a really, really hard time for me. 

Jason: Were you still in like middle school or was that high school at this point? 

Barbara: I believe I was still in middle school. I don't believe it was high school because I think I would remember a whole lot more about it.

Barbara: I just remember that being a very traumatic time for me. 

Jason: We've talked to other people who were children when their parents had the police come into their home and they felt like they were treated like co conspirators, like they were guilty of everything when the police came in the home. What was that experience like for you?

Barbara: For me, I didn't feel like a co conspirator. I was just so wrapped up in, you know, the way they treated my mother and father, you know, knowing that both of them are hardworking people. And I just couldn't understand why they were treating them like that, you know, rammaging through all of our stuff in the home and I don't know, just treating them so bad.

Barbara: And I just remember that and being so [00:04:00] angry and, and helpless. Cause I felt like I couldn't do anything about it. And so that was the last of that memory. 

Jason: You must not have had any sense of peace if you feel like you can't cross the street without getting arrested, you can't be in your home without having the police come and invade your home.

Jason: What does that do in terms of the way you're approaching the world? 

Barbara: Well, to tell the truth, back then when this was happening, I never gave it a thought. It just happened. You just 

Amber: thought that's the way the world functioned. 

Barbara: Yeah. Yeah. That's the way the world functions. So 

Jason: were your friends experiencing similar things or did you just not talk about it with other people?

Barbara: When I grew up in the hill, it was primarily Irish and Italian, I think. So if my friends went through any of this, they never talked about it. 

Amber: And I think that's a really important thing to bring up, Barbara, because especially as a [00:05:00] child, it's not something that you feel like you can talk about with other people.

Amber: Did you have a sense of shame about what had happened? 

Barbara: The only feelings I remember is just being so angry and being helpless because I knew my parents were hardworking people and they were good people and I was just so angry that this was happening and they had no control. Whatever the police wanted to do, they just did.

Barbara: That was it. 

Jason: Right. So what happens next? 

Barbara: So I guess the next memories I have after that was, I was an adult by then and my interactions with the police were, they would come into the community. I was still living in the hill and I had young children then, really young children. And The police would come into the community and I lived right on the corner.

Barbara: Like I would walk to the bus stop every morning and back every evening going to work. And so [00:06:00] walking back and forth every day, I would just see, especially in the evening when I come home, see police so many times kids were standing on a corner and the police would roll up in a van. A bunch of police would jump out and then make the kids get up against the fence and they would search them all.

Barbara: And so that happened for so long. And after a while, just one day, I just got tired of seeing it. And I felt so bad for the kids because you know, they couldn't do anything about it. They couldn't walk the streets in peace without knowing that at some moment, a band of police might jump out at a van and them, and they couldn't do anything about it.

Barbara: And so I just got tired of seeing it. And so one day I complained and the next thing I know, the police were bothering me. Every opportunity they had, 

Jason: you actually went into the police department. 

Barbara: I went to the police chief and complained about it. First, of course, I would say something to the police officers.

Barbara: And of course that was very [00:07:00] annoying for them, but then I took it to the police chief. Pastor was the chief at the time, and I took it to him. And then once I went to him, then the police were messing with me every opportunity they got. They would harass me for anything, like for instance, I owned a home on the corner.

Barbara: And so one day they gave me a ticket saying that I had trash by the tree stump. It was 100 ticket, and I still have that ticket because I show it to people because I know people can't believe police is so petty. But they gave me a ticket of having trash outside my home near a tree stump. Not that it was inside my gate or anything, but it was on my property.

Amber: So for context, could you tell our viewers what timeframe that was? 

Barbara: I know the estimate had to be around the sixties. I'm trying to remember when pastoral was in office, because that's the first time really that I felt that I could go to the police about anything before [00:08:00] then. It was like, the police were like the thing you want to stay far, far away from.

Barbara: But when pastoral got into office. I don't know why it was different, maybe because he walked the community and people got to know him, so I felt safe going to him to tell him what was going on. So I can't remember the exact time, but I know it had to be 60s, very early 70s. So then, you know, I kept doing this, you know, calling the police on things that they were doing.

Barbara: And then I got another ticket because I lived right in the corner. I was getting out of the car, taking my groceries in the house. And my car was right in front of the door, so it was a stop sign there. So the police gave me a ticket for being close to a stop sign, even though I only had my car there so that I could take my groceries into my house.

Barbara: You know, that's all the little petty stuff that you do. 

Amber: The small, little, I'm going to get her any kind of way I can, because she's a thorn in my side. 

Barbara: Any way possible. [00:09:00] So then, as my kids got older, that's when it really accelerated, because my kids became adults then. And so, they would mess with my kids all the time.

Barbara: Most of the time, it was one of my sons. He had his license, but he never seemed to carry it on. So I guess once they realized he doesn't always carry it on him, that was a reason to always stop him. So he was always getting tickets for not having his license on him. And it was so many, at one time it accumulated to over 300 in tickets.

Barbara: And so I actually went to court with him. and tried to get the prosecutor to drop some of the tickets, which they did. I think they could even see that he was being harassed every time you turn around, you know, you're getting a ticket. And at some time they would tell my kids when they bothered him and I go tell your mother that, that kind of thing.

Barbara: Oh boy. That's the kind of life I lived with police in New Haven. And let me just backtrack. I forgot about when I was a teenager. My brother, he was a year older than me. I had forgotten about this. He [00:10:00] had gotten arrested for purse snatch. You know, I didn't know anything about the criminal justice system.

Barbara: So I figured, okay, I know he didn't do it. He said he didn't do it. He knew who did it, but he didn't do it. So I figured, okay, so we don't have nothing to worry about. So, you know, we went through the process, going to trial. And of course he was. convicted. So that's how I learned a lot about the criminal justice system, because when he went to jail and I didn't have any clue what goes on in jail, I joined this group.

Barbara: It was about maybe six white women, middle class, had this group called Citizens for Humanizing Criminal Justice. And so I joined them to get some support and what can I do to help my brother while he's in prison. 

Jason: So you've been active. In the advocacy role for decades 

Barbara: since I was a teen. Yeah. And the greatest thing I remember about that group is back then it was only one prison.

Barbara: So we were able to [00:11:00] get trailers on the prison ground so families can get together with their loved one in prison on the weekends. 

Amber: Wow. That seems like a whole nother dimension or world than what we're at now. 

Barbara: Yeah, yeah, I remember that victory. But like I said, there was only one prison then. Now prisons have become a business, so you know, we can't have stuff like that going on.

Barbara: But back then, prisons were really about rehabilitation. You go to school, you can get a trade, they treated you like a human being. It was much nicer. Business and everything was much nicer. 

Amber: Wow, that's a perspective I don't know that I've heard firsthand from someone. I, in the context that we currently live, cannot even imagine a prison.

Amber: That treats people with dignity. And we can talk about why that is. I'm sure we'll get to it, but that seems astounding to me. 

Barbara: Yeah, that was way back. Like I said, when it was one prison, it really was truly [00:12:00] about rehabilitation. I mean, there was issues in the prison because I remember my brother got his shoulder broke when he was in there.

Barbara: So I knew there was violence in the prison, but other than that, 

Jason: so then you fast forward back to the eighties, your kids are growing up 

Barbara: and the police are messing with them. Every chance they get. 

Jason: As a mother, that's got to be upsetting you because you know that things are just not fair. That they're doing this as a way to get at you.

Jason: Yeah. And you just got to feel for your kids and for other people's kids. And it's got to be awful. 

Barbara: It was awful. It was very frustrating. Another really frustrating part about it is I would stick my neck out for other people's kids, but they wouldn't even speak out. And when I would try to get other people to say things, they would say, well, no, we see what the police are doing to you.

Barbara: We don't want that to happen to us. And so that's how the police got to silence the people in the community. [00:13:00] And I became the huge target. 

Amber: Right. And I think that it's important to know that, you know, a lot of people who may not have experienced it say, well, I would have gone higher. I would have talked to so and so I wouldn't have pled guilty.

Amber: I wouldn't have done this. And it's important to hear from people with that lived experience about what that does to a community living in fear. With the police who are supposed to be protecting and the people that you call when you want to feel that safety serving the exact opposite role. 

Barbara: Yeah, I never felt that safe.

Barbara: Like I said, the only semblance of feeling safety was after pastor got in office. And for people who think that, oh, they would never plead guilty to anything, they, they can't live in our community, that's for sure. Because one thing about New Haven community, over 90 percent of the cases are plea bargain.

Barbara: And people don't plea [00:14:00] bargain because they're guilty, they plea bargain because the system is set up that if you plead not guilty, and then you demand a trial, you're And if you lose that trial, you're going to get even more time than you would have gotten. People would rather say, you know, if they say two years, I'll just take the two years, because I know if I go to trial, and in our minds, anyway, we're figuring we're going to probably have an all white jury.

Barbara: So we're going to be found guilty. And that means we're going to get even more time. So it's better to take the two years than to risk getting five and 10. And so that's why a lot of people plea bargain. If you can trust the system, Which we can't, then I can see you saying I would never plead guilty to something I didn't do, but we don't have that kind of protection.

Barbara: Most likely we will be found guilty and we will be doing some time. So we go for lesser time. 

Amber: Absolutely. And I find it very interesting that when you're talking about sentencing and plea bargaining, the system can be perfectly fine with, okay, if [00:15:00] you plea out, then you're not so dangerous, and one year will be fine.

Amber: But if you fight for yourself and advocate for yourself, then all of a sudden you're so dangerous that you need 20 years. 

Barbara: Yeah. 

Amber: But it's still the same act. 

Barbara: Yeah, and that's crazy because the system continues to work like that. 

Amber: Yes, 

Barbara: it continues. If you want to exercise your right to a trial, you are gambling that you're going to get a lot more time than if you just go ahead and say you're guilty and go ahead and take the couple of years they're going to give you.

Jason: And it's scary. 

Barbara: I remember one of the things the police did to me. There's been so many attempts to break me. Matter of fact, officer actually said one day he was gonna bury me. But you know, I didn't let it stop me. But they arrested me one day. They actually came on my job. This is just to humiliate me because they know where I live at.

Barbara: They claim they found some drugs in the basement of my house. I had a three family house. They claimed they found some drugs [00:16:00] down there. And so they arrested me. They came on my job and it was at a lunchtime. So of course, all my coworkers were coming in and out of the building. And then the police called me downstairs and he said, you're under arrest.

Barbara: I said, under arrest for what? And he said, possession of drugs. And I can't even remember the charges. It was like mind blowing to me. I said, yeah, you kidding? And he said, do we look like we're kidding? It was such a joke to me. Are you serious? Even to this day, I'll tell you, if somebody showed me cocaine, I wouldn't even know what it is.

Barbara: I know it's white. I don't know if it looks like powder, sugar. I know it's white. But if they showed me today, I wouldn't even know. But that's what I got arrested for. But I was fortunate because This bondsman at the time, he was good friends with my family. So when he heard that I had gotten arrested and it was on a weekend, which means I would have stayed in [00:17:00] jail all weekend, he came and bonded me out.

Barbara: And that saved me from spending a weekend in jail for something. I have no clue about period. That was that arrest. Then there was another arrest years later. I had moved to Hampton because he was just getting so bad. I moved to Hampton and the police came to the house. One day looking for one of my sons, he was a teenager, and they said he was driving a car, he jumped out of a car, they believe he's in my house, they wanted to raid my house, and my grandkids were there, and they were all scared, and I said, no, you can't come in here.

Barbara: I said, my son is not here, but they still wanted to get in the house, but just, happened and my son did come toward the house and they had him, they had him on the ground and they had a gun at him. So, you know, I'm immediately scared. My grandkids are looking out the window, they're crying and scared. And so I said, what are you doing?

Barbara: What are you doing? And they said he's under arrest back up. So I said, okay, I just want to know [00:18:00] why are you dragging him on the ground and why do you have a gun on him? And then I think I started to walk away and one of the officers got upset and he said, grab her. And I turned around and he grabbed me and I said, why are you grabbing me?

Barbara: And he said, you're under arrest. I said, under arrest for what? And then they put me in a car. I think it was like July or August. It was really, really hot. They rolled the window all the way up. So it was steaming in the car. They put the cuffs on so hard that it broke my skin and I'm claustrophobic. So I'm just asking him, could you please just roll the window down a little bit?

Barbara: And so the cop said to me, you're not in New Haven anymore. And so I said, Oh my God, now they followed me from New Haven into Hampton now. So now they're going to start messing with me in Hampton. So I got arrested and I'll never forget it. They took me to the police station. 

Jason: And your crime was being a concerned mother.

Barbara: Yeah. Yeah. And so, like I said, my grandkids were scared. crying and everything. And I said, go in the house. I'm [00:19:00] going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. My son was struggling on the ground because he seen what the police were doing to me. And I said, don't, I'm okay. I don't want to give them any reason to bother you.

Barbara: I said, I'm okay. And so they brought both of us down to the police station. They had my son in the back. They had me cuffed to a table. And so I heard someone over the radio or something in the police station. And he was saying to someone else, I need a gun. So whoever was on the other line said, well, it's the person right hand or left hand.

Barbara: And I sat there, I said, Oh my God, they're going to try to put a gun on my son. So they went in the back and I heard him ask my son, he said, what hand do you use? So my son said both. And I think because he was smart enough, he knew how the cops had been treating us and he knew that they were up to something.

Barbara: So he said, I use both. And I just, Oh my God, they're trying to make this something serious. And then I heard one of the officers say, you have to get them for a felony. So then [00:20:00] later when they came to me and I said, how do you sleep at night? And I remember the officer saying, I sleep like a baby. So then I heard them talking and said, well, what are we going to charge it with?

Barbara: And then the officers were saying, uh, well, you know, we was struggling and she jumped on your back and you have some knee injuries and back injuries now. Yeah. And I just looked at them and I wanted to cry, but I refused to let them know that I was that upset by what they were doing. I said, this must have been what it was like in the South, in the backwoods when they arrested us.

Barbara: And so I was horrified. I didn't know what was going to happen to me. Because I didn't know what story they were going to come up with, but I knew they were trying to be serious. 

Jason: This is Connecticut. 

Amber: We don't have racism in Connecticut, Barbara. 

Barbara: You know, I think that's why my parents came here, because that's what they thought.

Amber: Wow. 

Barbara: But they put me in a cell, and like I said, I'm claustrophobic, so I'm asking them, can you please [00:21:00] just let me out of the cell for a minute? And of course, I think they enjoyed the fact that, you know, I was suffering. And I told myself I'm just gonna have to go to sleep because I'm gonna have to be here for the night, and I'm gonna have to make it through.

Barbara: So I went to sleep and when I got up in the morning was trying to go to court. And when I went to court, I found out what they had charged me with, and it was breach of the peace, and I remember resisting. I don't know what they wrote in the report. I have the report because I kept all that stuff, but I can't remember offhand.

Barbara: But I remember when I faced the judge, she said, this case is serious, but I'm going to give you a PTA, and I don't want you to have any more incidents of violence. And I wanted to cry, because I'm so frustrated, like, I didn't do anything, and here this judge is thinking, I assaulted officers. That's what the other charge was, assaulting officers.

Barbara: And so for months I had to go back and forth to court. I was working at the time. Luckily, I didn't lose my job for about a year. I had to keep running back and [00:22:00] forth to court because they wanted me to plead guilty. I told him I was going to trial because I was innocent. And so after about a year, my trial date was coming up.

Barbara: Matter of fact, just before we get ready to go into start the trial, the prosecutor came and asked my attorney, would I plead guilty for I think it was interfering. So I thought about it and I said, you know what, I'd rather just say I'm guilty to interfering. And at least I can go back home to my kids go back to my job, then to have to face the trial probably all white jury.

Barbara: And then these white officers gonna come in and say that this black woman jumped on your back and was choking them because that's what they put in the report. And then I'm gonna end up with a whole lot more time. And so I just said, okay. 

Amber: And I think it's important that you talk about your kids and going back to your job because so many people who find themselves in this situation [00:23:00] are parents.

Amber: And so there is so much riding on their freedom. 

Barbara: Yeah. And they were already traumatized by the incident. So I didn't want to end up going to jail, but to tell the truth, you know, I went to court that day and they told me that I could just plead to a lesser charge. I had let my kids know that it's possible.

Barbara: I might have to go to prison, but I try to make it not so bad by telling them, you know, if I have to go, then it was just meant to be. And maybe because I need to go in there and help other people. And so that's what I told my kids. 

Amber: And at that point, had that happened, was there family that would be able to care for them or how would that have worked?

Barbara: Well, like I said, my kids are pretty big by then. At that time, their father and I were not together. So it would have been mostly my oldest son and, you know, my sisters and brothers who were around to help out. [00:24:00] That would have been how they would have gotten through. 

Amber: Right, right. 

Barbara: But I ended up getting probation and I didn't even have to report to anybody.

Barbara: I guess they just wanted to have it on record that I was on probation. So, I was on probation and then, uh, Maybe about 20 years later, maybe 15 years later, I actually got a pardon. 

Jason: Hey, wow. But it's interesting, you know, back then there weren't cell phones to capture what was going on. Now everybody's got a cell phone on.

Barbara: Oh yes. 

Jason: If you're quick enough and lucky enough to remember to turn them on But you know when it's your word against their word in the society that we live in I think it's a lot easier for the general public to Accept what you're saying now than back then because people bought into what they saw on tv You're a scary person who attacked the police, right?

Jason: That's what they say. So it must be true. 

Barbara: Yeah, 

Jason: it's amazing what you've been through and and the fact that [00:25:00] you're here Almost laughing about it. 

Barbara: Yeah, 

Jason: but you can use it and it's propelled you have you been involved? In advocacy groups all the way through you talked about being in one when your brother was justice involved but did you kind of drop out of it for a while and come back in or 

Barbara: I did drop out of it because by then I was having kids And so, you know, my family came first.

Barbara: But I never dropped out to the point that I didn't have any involvement because like I said, even when I had my kids, I was always out here advocating for other people's kids and eventually had to advocate for my own kids. And so, it never really went away, but as they got older, then I became more involved.

Barbara: I joined this group called People Against Injustice. I was in it for like 13 years. I took my work so much broader than the organization wanted it to be. And so I opened up my own thing, which I call My Brother's Keeper, and started doing a lot of prison work and police [00:26:00] work. Both of those were my big things.

Barbara: But we also did a lot of community work like, I joined with different campaigns like the Red Flag Campaign that Connecticut Against Gun Violence had. Then I joined this group that just recently, in 2015, started talking about how to end solitary confinement. And I was excited about that coming to Connecticut because I have been working on solitary confinement with other states across the nation for many years, but it never took hold at Connecticut until a few years ago.

Barbara: I remember actually testifying in the first congressional hearing that Pennsylvania had many years ago trying to end solitary confinement. I was part of the struggle in Oakland, California. I work with people in New Jersey, in New York, and so when it came to Connecticut, I was right on top of that. 

Jason: So you got involved in that particular cause because of a personal experience.[00:27:00] 

Barbara: Solitary confinement, I got involved in it just because it was a prison issue long ago. But in the last recent years, like 2015, it became even more important because my youngest son ended up in solitary confinement. He was 17 at the time he had just turned 17 and he was arrested for breaching the peace and threatening.

Barbara: It was an argument he had and so he was pre trial. Well he was in NYI which is Manson Youth and he talked about the horrors of Manson Youth, how they treat our young people. 

Jason: What year was this? 

Barbara: Late 80s, early 90s. He was 16 when he went in, but by the time he went into Northern, he was 17. So what happened, they do a lot of chain in the kids out.

Barbara: So he said he was chained up going somewhere. I forgot where he said he was going, but anyway, he said that the correctional officer pulled down the chain, you know, they like to show their power. So he jerked down the chain. And so my son, he was only 16 [00:28:00] at the time he got angry. He pulled it back and they both fell on the floor.

Barbara: So the CEO, just like police officers wrote a report and said he assaulted him. And so, because he got that charge, the day he turned 17, they took him to Northern. 

Jason: So, all of a sudden, he's sent to Northern Correctional because he's passed this 

Amber: He's all of a sudden, you know, come of age, yes. 

Barbara: Yeah, yeah, this one year, and now he's old enough to be tortured.

Amber: If you don't mind, could you, for those who are not familiar with Northern here in Connecticut and what that is, could you just talk a little bit about the institution, what it is, and kind of the approach there? 

Barbara: Well, this place, I always say a very sick mind had to develop it. If you've ever seen a picture of it, it's this cement cell that they put them in.

Barbara: It has a little tiny door. that they put their medication and food through. It's a little slit in the door. Other than that, they're [00:29:00] just in that cell by themselves with a cot and the toilet. And they have no interactions with anyone else. They're just completely isolated. And that's where they stay for 23 hours a day.

Barbara: And at the one hour that they have to get of exercise, they chain them up, hands, ankles, and around their waist. and they put them in what they call a big dog cage and that's what their exercise is. They put them in there all chained up for an hour so there's nothing to do in there all chained up but just pace around the cage and that's their constitutional right to their exercise.

Barbara: When they go to get a shower they chain them to the shower so they're always chained up so the first time I visited my son was the only time I visited because it was just too painful to see. My son came out, and like I said, he had all the chains, the belly chains, arms, ankles, everything. [00:30:00] And that's how they brought him out to me, and they chained him to this table so he could talk to me.

Barbara: And it took everything, everything in me. Not to just burst out and cry, but I didn't want my son to know that I was in so much pain. So I just held it in and just got through the visit. But from the moment I walked out of there, I knew that place had to close. My son would write me and tell me about all the things they were doing to him and my please, you got to get me out of here.

Barbara: I'm losing my mind. Even in there, they'll punish him. And you know, no phone calls, no visits. Then I would send him pictures to help him keep his sanity. Cause he said he was losing it. I would just send a picture to the family so he can stay connected and they wouldn't even let the pictures come in. So then the entire time I fought, I reached out to all kinds of [00:31:00] organizations that are supposed to help prisoners.

Barbara: legal assistance, NAMI, which is supposed to advocate for people with mental illness, because by then he was just completely messed up. I reached out to all those people. I reached out to legislators, everybody that I could think of to get him out. And I finally was able to get him out. But by the time he came out, he was completely psychotic.

Barbara: He was a mess. 

Jason: And he was 17 when he went in. 

Barbara: Yeah, yeah. 

Jason: I mean, he was still your baby. 

Barbara: Yeah, he was a kid. And that's what hurts so bad. One of the things that United Nations, you know, they've cited Connecticut prisons just last year for their abusive practices. And so they say that after a few days of isolation, the brain starts to work differently.

Barbara: And then after 15 days, you could get irreparable harm. And the younger you are, because your brain is still forming, the more likely you are [00:32:00] to get brain damage. 

Amber: Right. 

Jason: Has anyone ever apologized to him or to you for what he went through? 

Barbara: I have to say there was one legislator and it was shocking to me.

Barbara: This is because we did some work up in Harford under Stop Solitary. We brought a replica of a isolation cell to Harford and we asked the legislators to go inside. There was just one legislator, Christine Palm, who said after about 15 minutes she couldn't even take anymore. She started feeling different.

Barbara: It was hard for anybody. I couldn't even go in there. I just seen the cell and I seen that little tight space and thinking about my son was in this just, I fell apart so I was never able to go inside the cell. I was having my son go on the road with me to talk about what it was like being in there. And so, He was there one time when they had to sell and one of the legislators came up to him and my son was telling him that he had been in there and what happened to him and he actually shook my son's hand and he said, I'm so sorry what happened [00:33:00] to you.

Jason: What did that do for him when he heard that 

Barbara: it was very inspiring for him because it showed him that. other people did care about what happened to him. So it meant a lot to him and it kept him working with me for a while. But you know, after a while, when you start to do this work, then you start reliving the memories and then it becomes debilitating for you, which is what this last couple of years have been for me, really debilitating doing this work.

Barbara: I find myself a lot of times reliving You know, when my son was in there and it was a hard time then because I still had to go to work every day and I had kids at home. I didn't let any of the kids know what was going on with their brother because it was so painful. But I remember many nights having panic attacks, can't sleep, getting up in the middle of the night, going to the door because I felt like I couldn't breathe.

Barbara: I felt like my son was pulling on my spirit. I could feel him in pain calling out for [00:34:00] me to help and so it was really, really hard. It's hard doing this work when you have to keep fighting those memories coming up, and they keep resurfacing as I do this work, but it's important enough for me that I feel I have to push through it to get it done, because I don't want anybody else to suffer like that.

Barbara: I don't want another mother to suffer like I have. I don't want another child to be damaged like my son was damaged. To this date, he still has a lot of problems with panic attacks and anxiety and depression and mood swings. Sometimes he's okay. And then other times he's depressed. 

Amber: Barbara, I just really want to commend your lengthy struggle and your willingness to share some of these things so that it can benefit other people because it is a difficult road.

Amber: The situation that we encountered was not nearly as difficult, not nearly as long, but having had a [00:35:00] husband who was in solitary as well, I can relate a little bit to some of the things that you're saying about sometimes he's okay. Sometimes he's not okay. Sometimes. The, the smallest thing that may not matter to anyone else is a trigger moment.

Barbara: Right. 

Amber: You know, crowds are a problem. 

Barbara: Yeah, crowds, that was a problem. 

Amber: Being in small spaces at one point can be comforting and at one point can be traumatizing. 

Barbara: Yeah. 

Amber: So I'm so sorry that You had to encounter that, but I'm so inspired by your work. I just have to call out one particular time that I was so inspired by you.

Amber: Seeing you on television with Governor Lamont during the COVID 19 epidemic and him just not listening. And there were many times where the voices were [00:36:00] not heard and you breaking through that during a press conference. Do you want to talk just a little bit about that? 

Barbara: Yes. We have been trying to reach out to governor to care about what was going on.

Barbara: We did protests outside his mansion many times, at the Capitol many times, outside prisons, and he just was indifferent. He just would not respond to anything. I live in West Haven and someone had called me and said, for my son, the New Haven Green, I said, Oh my God, let me get down there. And I don't know how I got downtown so fast, but I got downtown, he was walking around.

Barbara: So I walked up to him and I said, Hello, Governor Monk. My name is Barbara Fair. And I wanted to know, what is your plan for the people suffering behind bars right now with COVID? And he said, well, you know, we're doing, um, a lot of work. And this is exactly how I spoke to him. I said, governor, I'm part of stop solves here.

Barbara: So I know a lot about [00:37:00] what's going on and what's not going on inside of the prison. So can you just be honest to me about what kind of a plan you have for people behind bars right now? He said, I don't have time for that. So I just looked at him because titles don't mean nothing to me. I looked at him like, who does he think he's talking to?

Barbara: I said, okay, he's going to get on the mic. And he doesn't want to hear me now, civil, away from the mic. He'll hear me when he gets on the mic. And so when he approached the mic, I got real close and I waited for him to start talking. And then I asked him again on the mic in public, what is your plan for the people behind bars?

Barbara: I said, is it because the majority of them are black and Brown, that you have no plan? And he didn't know what to say 

Jason: for you 

Amber: at some point, speaking truth to power has to come to light, especially during such an emergency situation in our [00:38:00] state. 

Barbara: Yes. 

Amber: I couldn't let the interview go by without mentioning that.

Amber: And I was like, wow, I want to be like her.

Barbara: One of the things I also do is I ask people inside if they will send letters out to me so I know what's going on the inside. I got letters from people saying, Oh my God, we saw you on TV. Do you know we were cheering and everything in here? So it makes me feel good knowing that they know somebody cares about them.

Amber: A hundred percent. 

Jason: I want to go back for a minute. When you were talking about the experience, you got super, super emotional. And I want to acknowledge that it's so obvious that you to this day, carry that with you and you've talked about how your son carries it with him. Amber talked about her loved one.

Jason: And it's so clear, the lasting, lasting impact. We need to be honest. If we think that [00:39:00] putting people in prison and punishing them is the right answer to solve society's issues, and we can talk about how they get there and how unfair it is. If we want to rehabilitate people and bring them back into society as productive members, perhaps torturing them and giving them this punishment that's going to last far beyond when they're released, and it touches not only them but their entire families.

Jason: It's just such a big issue, and you've demonstrated that today and talked about it a little bit. I mean, I don't think we can really even feel the full impact. 

Barbara: Now, what hurts me, and what inspires me to continue this fight, not only to close Northern and I'm happy that Northern's closing, it took a long time to get here should have never opened and it definitely shouldn't stay open as long as it did.

Announcer: Right. 

Barbara: Because it was a place of pure torture. They were breaking people's spirits. And that's what that place was designed to [00:40:00] do to break people's spirits. Because like I said, my son was just a young kid and he was pre trial. That means he hadn't even been convicted of anything. And before he even got convicted of anything, they had broke him.

Barbara: But that was the job of Norgan. Anyone resisting any kind of way, you're going to Northern because we're going to break your spirit. The way they market it to the community, these are the worst of the worst. And I don't know if you've ever seen that film, The Worst of the Worst, but there's a young black kid in there.

Barbara: That's my son. And they marketed to the community that have no clue that we're putting the worst and most violent people in here. So of course, people think that that's what's really happening. So they support it. But no, that place is for anybody who resists in any kind of way. We're going to break their spirit.

Barbara: And some young people ended up there during COVID because they were resisting the way they were being treated inhumanely. The COs not wearing masks, [00:41:00] putting them in jeopardy, and being held in their cells all day long, can't go shower a couple of days a week. And so, it was a few people just talked about, you know, resisting and how they're going to protest, and they took them right out and sent them to Northern, because that's where they send people that want to resist in any kind of way.

Barbara: You have to accept that mistreatment, or you end up in Northern and they break you. Right now, a lot of those people, when they come out of Northern, they end up in the Garner facility, which has almost 500 people in there. And those are people who are not just mentally ill, they're seriously mentally ill.

Barbara: And many of them come from Northern, where they've been broken in spirit and mind. And then they end up in Garner and they keep them in cells, even then, 23 hours a day, drugging them up. And I'm sure they experiment on them. And so some of these people come back to the streets, right? So I know someone who came right back to the streets a couple of weeks ago, right, straight out in Northern.[00:42:00] 

Amber: Right. When we talk about mass incarceration, you hear that statistic a lot, that 95 percent of people are going to be coming home. And so how do you want them to be when they're coming back to the communities? Do you want them to be broken? Or do you want them to be rehabilitated? And that's really the question that I think we all need to ask ourselves.

Jason: Before we go into the Protect Act and what you're doing now, is there more to your family's story that you want to share or have you touched on the highlights? 

Barbara: I think I've touched on the highlights. I think one part that's really important for me though, is when my son went in prison at 16, he had graduated from high school.

Barbara: He was upcoming hip hop artists. He was into entertainment, writing songs. Cause he had a brother in the hip hop community and my other son moved to California and my youngest son was going to follow his brother and they were going to be these big [00:43:00] entertainers. And by the time my son came out. He was just completely broken.

Barbara: He's never been the same. I can barely get him to write in the journal. Could I try to get him to at least try to process some of his feelings so they're not held inside. And so he doesn't even do that. He spends a lot of his time in his room alone because the crowds and all of that stuff brings on too much anxiety.

Barbara: And so they have destroyed my son. And so this fight for me, it's never going to die because. Now I watch him struggle to live every day. This fight will never be over for me. And I think about this is just my one child. There's so many other kids out there that don't have what my son had. I built relationships with the correctional officers and the commissioners and stuff so that I could have some kind of semblance of help for my son.

Barbara: I didn't mention I'm a licensed social worker. So he allowed [00:44:00] me to go in and look at my son's records. And I looked in his records and I sat down with the medical staff. I said, first of all, When I looked through my son's chart, I said, depending on who's looking at him, there's a different diagnosis. So how are you treating him when you don't even all agree with the same diagnosis?

Barbara: You have so many meds. When I come here, I look at him and I'm wondering, where is my son? Is he inside of that body? And so as a result of my advocacy, My son got taken down from a lot of those drugs. They were very careful about how they treated him after that, because they know my eyes was on everything.

Barbara: But I think about all those thousands of other sons who don't have that. 

Amber: Right. 

Barbara: And so that's why I continued this work because most of those people are coming back to our community. And if they say it's about public safety, the worst thing that you can do for public safety, it's break these young men.

Barbara: drug them all up and then send them back to our community. And then when they're wreaking havoc in the community, [00:45:00] people want to punish them even further. They never want to look at you created these monsters. They never want to look at that. You created them, and now that they're completely mentally ill, now you want to criminalize mental illness, so now you have them for the rest of your life in increments.

Barbara: You know, a few years here, a few years there, but their life is gone. 

Amber: It's a cycle that we absolutely have to break. Yeah. 

Jason: So what else do you need the politicians in Connecticut that will be voting on the PROTECT Act to know? If you had them sitting in front of you right now, what would you say? 

Barbara: First of all, what we're asking is what any human being should be asking for.

Barbara: We're just asking people to be treated humanely. We're asking legislators to stop writing so many laws that criminalize people. Every single behavior criminalized poverty, addiction, mental illness, you criminalize everything so we all become criminals. And then you write [00:46:00] these laws, and many of them, when we look at the full laws have racial inequity in them.

Barbara: Instead of a session coming up with hundreds of bills where you know you're not going to get anything done, why don't you spend just one or two sessions just looking at some of these laws that you have written that are causing so much havoc and destroying so many families. Why don't you undo some of those?

Barbara: You write these laws and they're selectively enforced in certain communities. That's why you see a prison system that is almost 75 percent black and brown, yet we make up less than 25 percent of the whole Connecticut population. It's because the laws are written, but our communities are over policed.

Barbara: Our communities are where they selectively enforce them. And so that's why you're seeing us in prison. Because sometimes I hear people say, Well, you know, they're all in prison, so they must have done something, but we know we're not the only one doing anything. So how do you explain such a huge prison population?

Barbara: How do [00:47:00] you explain in Northern, almost 90 percent of the people were black and brown. How do you explain in the Manson youth facility, almost 90 percent of those people are black and brown. How do you explain that if racism no longer exists? So, first of all, we have to start looking within ourselves. and recognize our own biases and start undoing a lot of this stuff that was put together.

Barbara: Like people talk about the work that we do is reform. For me, I did like 30 years of reform because I really thought you could reform this system. You can't reform this system. Now I only talk about dismantle. If you're not dismantling this system from the roots, And the roots are black inferiority and white supremacy.

Barbara: If you're not getting rid of those roots, this system will never be different. They will reform it. What I say just makes it look different, but you're doing the same thing. You're doing the exact same thing they did their 401 years ago. [00:48:00] You're just making it look different. You went through slavery to the black codes to Jim Crow to the war on drugs and all of these things did the same thing control the lives of black and brown people.

Barbara: And we have to come to grips with that. And until we can at least come to grips with that we're never going to change what's going on in America, 

Jason: 60s. So the question is. Do you feel positive momentum or do you just feel this is just a lot of heavy lifting forever? 

Barbara: I think it's a lot of heavy lifting, but I think if we don't take on that journey.

Barbara: That the next generation will be heavy lifting, and I'm hoping they won't have to do as much heavy lifting. I know I will never get the system that I want in my lifetime. But if I can plant those seeds deep enough, then the next generation won't have to work as hard. But I do believe we can one day become a humane [00:49:00] society again.

Barbara: We all have a job to do. And I'm disappointed in some of the organizations, especially black organizations that say they're about improving the lives of black people. They don't step up to this game. They're not in the game with me, the black church. They're not in the game with me. So those are some of my real frustrations.

Jason: We had a hearing in the Judiciary Committee this last week. Do you want to say anything about that? 

Barbara: The one thing that I can say that was very prominent in this hearing, there were a lot of voices in this hearing. Voices of people who were formerly incarcerated, who've been through solitary. There were voices, there are people that are in prison right now because some organizations actually had people call in and talk about the situation.

Barbara: I mean Yale students deserve the biggest shout out because they worked so hard behind the scenes helping me with this work. And so I had a bunch of letters and they read from some of those letters. But the most [00:50:00] important thing I think out of that hearing is that people like me, and people who've been through solitary when you talk about re traumatizing.

Barbara: We had a hard time with that hearing. By the time they got to me, I could barely even speak. I couldn't even say everything I wanted. That's why I submitted another public testimony because I couldn't even say what I wanted to say. I was so overwhelmed by all those painful stories. And it actually took me a couple of days to recover.

Barbara: The next couple of days after that, people would call me and I would text and say, I'm just not in a good place right now. You know, I'm going to need a couple of days to get myself back together. And I heard that from other people too, that it took them a few days after that to get theirselves back together.

Barbara: And so that re traumatizing part is, we like that we had the hearing, we're thankful for it, but I don't think any of us were prepared. For how painful that was going to be and how re triggering and re traumatizing that was [00:51:00] going to be. But we had that. So our next thing is April 9th. They get to vote it out of committee.

Barbara: So we're doing a lot of work in the meantime, reaching out to legislators. April 2nd, Good Friday, we want to do some event. The perfect time to be talking about renewing. So hopefully April 9th, the bill comes out. It won't be watered down like the first time around. And that we can actually be on the path to ending solitary confinement.

Barbara: The bill won't end it. But it definitely puts us on a path of getting it done. We want oversight because without oversight, it'll never happen. And we need enforcement to make sure that it happens. 

Amber: So Barbara, I just want to go a little bit back to the hearing. And again, I appreciate so much. You're sharing about that advocacy experience and the heavy lifting that people are doing.

Amber: I was part of the hearing as well, and what I found so moving about the hearing [00:52:00] were all of the voices of impacted people combined with people who had worked in the system, who were also equally as affected, you know, nurses that thought they were going to be doing good things told that they couldn't treat people humanely.

Amber: We even had researchers who worked with animals that said, we don't even treat animals in this manner. So there was a lot of good information that was shared and it was a very lengthy hearing. It was a hard day. It was hard for those of us who were reliving some of the experiences of our loved ones, but very, very important work.

Amber: And then the other thing I wanted to share for the listeners is that this Bill is not just about solitary confinement, 

Announcer: right? 

Amber: It's about treating people who are residents of our prisons and jails, humanely establishing a correctional commission, establishing an ombudsman [00:53:00] that can serve as that liaison family visitation.

Amber: So there's a lot in the meat of this bill. In the podcast notes, we'll go ahead and put a link to the bill so people can check it out, but we are so behind you and this effort and so thrilled that you were able to come and join us today. 

Barbara: Yes, and another great thing about the hearing, I'm glad you brought that up too, were the voices of people from Cheshire and Wallingford, West Hartford, who had no clue that people would be treated this way.

Barbara: I remember one man from North Haven say, I don't want my tax money. spent torturing people. So we were able to reach people who had no clue about what's going on. And that's been our main target. I know there's people out there that even if they know this, they don't care because they can't even connect with the humanity of black and brown people.

Barbara: But there's so many people who do care. And so those are the ones we're trying to reach out to care enough to call your [00:54:00] legislator. and have them support the passage of this bill. People can also go on our website. It's StopSolitaryCT. org. You can see all the many things that we've done, the editorials we've written, the protests, everything.

Barbara: Anything that you can do to support, we've done it. This session, we actually have billboards up on 84 on 95. We have bus ads on buses going through Hartford. We have shirts, face masks, banners. We went all out this time because the first time around in 2017, the only thing that they really did that was good, if you want to say it's good, but because of my son being the age he was at, they said you had to be at least 18.

Amber: You have to be at least 18 to be tortured. 

Barbara: And that bill was so watered down by the time we got it. So this time we said, we're going all out, spending whatever we have to, we have to reach those people out in the [00:55:00] suburbs so that we can get their attention on what's going on and hopefully find enough people that will push their legislator to pass this bill.

Barbara: And that'll get on the governor's desk and he will sign it. We're not willing to start compromising everything down to nothing. We want a bill that's truly going to put an end to this torture that, like I said, United Nations even sanctioned our prisons for the way they're treating people. 

Amber: Last but not least, in terms of the hearing, I just wanted to mention that.

Amber: It was not lost on people who watched the hearing some of the questions that were lodged at people with lived experience that were not meant to gather information. They were meant to humiliate. 

Barbara: Yes. 

Amber: Asking people what their charge was, asking people to divulge more about their situation with sometimes no concern for the trauma [00:56:00] and the difficulty that somebody was having and sharing their story.

Amber: So I just wanted to say that as part of our discussion and make it clear that members of the public see that and they understand the inhumanity of it. 

Barbara: And I actually made a note of that in my post hearing testimony about that and legislators need to know this too, because what he did, I won't call any names.

Barbara: It was a couple of them. Some were asking, what's your criminal history as though depending on what you did, you deserve to be tortured. You know, that was incredible. They don't realize when we're trying to get the voices that are most impacted, we actually work with them on, okay, prepare yourself. Those painful memories may resurface and you gotta be able to cope with that because what happened to you was a wound to your psyche and retelling your stories, you keep opening those wounds, so be prepared for that.

Barbara: What we didn't prepare for was having someone [00:57:00] cross examined. We were sitting there like, Oh my God, is somebody going to stop this mad man from doing this? Because obvious to all of us, it was not about wanting to get a deeper understanding of how we have harmed you. It was more about. How can I discredit you by asking you questions that have nothing to do with solitary?

Barbara: Like when you felt suicidal and wanted to kill yourself, how did you get the weapon to hurt yourself? I mean, like, really? How insensitive could legislators be? So I'm hoping that even other people on that committee will say to their cohort, this is not how we treat our public, because we undermine the public's trust that all lives matter when we do things like that.

Barbara: So his attempt to undermine and discredit Miss Tracy Bernardi. All it did was said more about him than it said about her. 

Amber: There's a lot of support out there [00:58:00] and we stand in solidarity with people who are sharing their experiences. And then I also want to commend those legislators who take the time to thank people for coming, because there are many legislators who are caring, 

Barbara: who 

Amber: do.

Amber: Thank people and acknowledge the difficulty that arises when you do need to reopen those wounds. So I just wanted to highlight that and call out the stark difference that is very clear to people viewing a hearing like that. 

Jason: And while you're doing it in general, I would like to say, Senator Winfield, Representative Porter, 

Barbara: Christine Palm, Julianne Gilchrist 

Jason: and Steve Staffstrom.

Barbara: Yeah, there's so many that actually hearing our stories and we hope that they haven't heard them in vain because it's hard to keep talking about this. It's hard to keep telling our stories. 

Jason: Those individuals are sitting there with their colleagues [00:59:00] who are doing the damaging things we've talked about and doing what they can to lift up the stories and acknowledge and be sensitive.

Jason: Yes, it's important to acknowledge that. As we get to the end of this particular episode, which I feel was super timely and really an important issue because it touches on humanity and there's a real opportunity in Connecticut to make a difference that could actually be meaningful in so many lives for all of us, for our entire community.

Jason: So with that, Amber, do you have any final thoughts? 

Amber: I just want to have Barbara share that web address one more time for Stop Solitary, and if you have anything else that you want to shout out that people can go to learn, support, and be part of this important effort, now is your time to share that. 

Barbara: Okay.

Barbara: The web is stop solitary ct. org. And on that, you'll find out so much information about [01:00:00] what our journey has been and where we're planning to continue. There's petitions you can sign. We have a legislative packet, so you can find who your legislator is and reach out. That's very, very important.

Barbara: Legislators need to know that you care about this issue because that's what's going to prompt them to vote for it. In the end, I just want to thank both of you for this opportunity 

Jason: Thank you so much for being here with us. Barbara. You took jaywalking And turned it into becoming a tremendous advocate still doing it decades later We all owe you a debt of gratitude for the work that you've done.

Amber: Thank you. Thank you until 

Jason: next time amber 

Amber: We'll see you next time

Announcer: You've been listening to amplified voices a podcast listing the experiences of people and families [01:01:00] impacted by the criminal legal system You For more information, episodes, and podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoices. show.