Shauna Jones - Born into the System - Season 6 Episode 5

The first time Shauna Jones shares her story publicly, she starts in a place most people never imagine: being born into custody and growing up inside a life shaped by state systems. We talk about Arizona’s history, what power looks like behind prison walls, and how public narratives can erase consent and blame survivors when harm happens in custody. This conversation stays grounded in lived experience while asking bigger questions about the criminal legal system, institutional violence, and what society calls “justice.”

We follow Shauna through childhood instability, intergenerational incarceration, and the grief that comes from losing the few stable anchors a kid can cling to. She describes building a family of her own, surviving a near-death assault, and the unraveling that led to her 2014 arrest. From there, we get an unfiltered look at jail and prison: classification-based segregation, denied programming, retaliation for advocating, and the exhausting choices families make just to stay connected through visits, calls, and paid messaging.

After release in 2023, Shauna explains why reentry is not a finish line. We dig into the containment model, probation and surveillance, mandated treatment, polygraphs, and the sex offense registry, including the hidden punishment that lands on children and loved ones through stigma, digital exposure, and loss of privacy. Shauna also shares the work she’s doing now through the Collaborative Justice Institute to translate lived experience into policy language, and she draws a direct line between mass incarceration, foster care, and adoption timelines that can separate families through policy as much as force.

If this conversation expands how you think about incarceration, reentry, and reform, subscribe, share the episode, and leave a review so more people can find these voices. What part of Shauna’s story stayed with you most?

Transcript

Why Amplified Voices Exists

Intro 0:00

Everyone has a voice, a story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. What if there were a way to amplify those stories? To have conversations with real people in real communities. A way to help them step into the power of their lived experience. Welcome to Amplified Voices, a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. Together, we can create positive change for everyone.

Jason 0:32

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Amplified Voices. I'm your host, Jason, here with my co-host Amber. Hello, Amber. Hello, Jason. Amber, today we have Shauna Jones. Hi, Shauna.

Shauna’s Story Starts Before Prison

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Hi, good morning, Jason. Good morning, Amber.

Jason 0:47

Good morning, Shauna. Shauna, we're going to start with the same question that we typically start with, and that is could you tell us a little bit about your life before entering the criminal legal system and what brought you into it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Absolutely. So, well, I'm from Arizona, and when people ask me who I was before incarceration, it's really hard for me to separate my story from the systems that I grew up around. So a lot of my life was shaped by institutional environments, family instability, adoption systems, and eventually incarceration itself. So prison didn't really feel like the beginning of the story for me. It felt like part of a much longer trajectory. So the state is not separate from me. It's been involved in shaping me. Part of my story traces back to Arizona history itself. Arizona Center for Women, formerly known as the ACW, held a capacity of 250 women. It was located in an area known for poverty, drugs, and prostitution. Initially, the prison was intended to clean up the streets located on Van Buren Street. It is a historical racial dividing line in Phoenix. And so that placement was intentional, not accidental. So my mother was part of that suite in the 1980s. She became incarcerated at the ACW. She did enter the system with very little protection. At that time in the 80s, the power was held by staff, not the women. So the roles between staff and the women, those were blurred. Not many boundaries. After my mother became incarcerated, she found herself pregnant while in custody. The pregnancy involved a state employee who worked for the prison. During this time, she uh was challenged with just having a voice and her agency being heard. And so after she reported the state rape across multiple public channels, there just wasn't much movement around that. And so the case reached political attention around the governor, some advocacy groups who were working with women's rights around that time.

Amber 3:29

Okay, so first, Shauna, I want to acknowledge the depth of the beginning of the story that you're sharing with us. And I want to acknowledge, I know that it often feels confusing or difficult to start at the very beginning, right? What I'm feeling is that it's important to state that there is no such thing in a system where there is such a power imbalance as a consensual relationship. So what has happened here is that your mother's consent was upended and she experienced a rape in prison. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

That is absolutely correct. She attempted several times to request for different decisions around her autonomy and her body through medical care, and that was denied several times. Her name was published, his was not. The state employee remained unnamed and protected by the state of Arizona, and she was forced to carry the pregnancy to term. Additionally, she was charged for the cost of the birth as well.

Jason 4:46

So, Shauna, in your situation, you were born, your life started already incarcerated.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yes, Jason. I learned early that power decides outcomes. I experienced systems as controlling, not protective. Clearly, my mother went into a system expected to be protected. And that's not what happened. And so my story has often been told about me, not by me. And I've been living inside a story already written about me. And so, again, I'm not an exception. I'm just evidence of how state violence continues, right? What happened after that was just even more atrocious. She had a double ear infection and was continuously ignored. And it got to the point where a family member had to reach out to the governor themselves to uh get basic care. When I go back and read her articles, it identifies her as being um, you know, deviant because of some of her past behaviors and choices, which led her up to uh being incarcerated. But really, the narration is it's almost blaming. For instance, um, they had posted in the papers, uh, the journalist at the time is that she coerced her males um and and seduced them into the rape. Um it was also published that she only wanted two things in life, and that was to get out of prison and to get herself pregnant while being incarcerated. Um, I don't know about you, but I know that when I went to prison, I didn't say, oh yes, I can't wait to be raped uh against my own will. So that is definitely important that we talk about these narratives from then until now because uh they just they take different forms.

Amber 6:44

So whether it's treatment of a double ear infection or being able to live free of sexual assault, those things are really basic human needs, right? To live in a place of safety. And then the other thing that I was was really resonating is this idea that there is a point at which people start to make determinations about who deserves to take on the label, if you will, or the banner of a survivor. Who is a survivor? What does a survivor look like?

Jason 7:25

Yeah, and what I'm looking at is again, it we put people into buckets as good and bad, and her mother was labeled as bad. She's the one that's bad, she's incarcerated, and the guy that was he was just this innocent person who fell under the spell of this woman who's incarcerated, who is so deviant that she was able to entrap him and get him to do this when the reality is so far from that.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, absolutely. So after the governor got involved with the political side of the case, it was determined that my mother had to finish her sentence. She tried getting early early release to be home with her children, and that didn't happen. And so I was forced to live with family at this point. I was awarded the state for a while, living under the care of my aunt. My mother was released, reintegrating back into society. And the reason why Vamburen Street is so historical and so symbolic for me is that my mother took her life on that same street. So she did pass away from a drug overdose, and they found her body in a hotel room on the same street that the prison was located.

Jason 8:41

You did you have or do you have siblings?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

I do. I have one sister, 13 years older than I am, and we have the exact same birthday, ironically.

Jason 8:52

So you ended up with an aunt, was your sister with you at that point?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

She had, yeah, she had moved to another state. She had started her own life as an adult. So I ended up moving in with my aunt, who was already in her 50s. She raised me up until I was around 12 years old, and she was unable to care for me at that point. So I later on went and stayed with my sister for a during those teenage years. And then at some point, I grew up and started my own life. I found myself in juvenile uh systems. It was either for uh a behavior-related issue or my aunt just couldn't care for me, so I had nowhere to stay. Some of the struggles I dealt with, first of all, I came from prison, right? I was a baby born out of a system, and that's a big responsibility for anyone to take on, whether it's family or not. My aunt did her best, but she also had seven children

Childhood Instability And System Involvement

SPEAKER_00 9:50

of her own that were also dealing with their own struggles. I was taken in and loved and cared for the best that my family could do. When I think of intergenerational incarceration, I could look back and think, okay, yes, my mother went to prison, but I also have other family members that experienced the system due to poverty or breaking the law or whatever it may have been that led them there. So, yes, during this, I'm here, I'm in the family, I have cousins, I have older cousins, and my aunt gets sick. And she had been like the core backbone for me. She no longer can remember my name. She has Alzheimer's. And so that was a really devastating blow because it was the one stable person I had in my life that loved me and took me in unbelievable circumstances. I was basically raising myself during this time and just kind of going with the punches. I think that I was definitely too young to understand what was healthy and what wasn't healthy. And I think that the way I handled that was staying at my friend's house, right? So I think a lot of that led to reacting, hanging out with friends, starting to dabble with substances, starting to party. And so those early reactions started at a very young age. I still didn't know what feelings were what. And I think that was a devastating blow for me at that age. I internalized that maybe if I could have done this thing, that would have helped my aunt remember. Or maybe if I do this thing, she would understand how to pay the bills or not run around with weapons in her hand, things like that. When you're at that age, you barely understand yourself and you're learning your own basic identity. I think that with the instability from moving from Arizona to California, back to Arizona, going in and out of different schools, trying to figure out who's gonna be my parent, right? Because I went from a parent to another parent to no parent. It's been definitely a journey. Fast forward, I attempted to build a life and raise children. Um, had my first child uh at 18 years old.

Jason 12:17

So you're 18 years old. You're you graduated from high school. Were you continuing your schooling or were you working?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

I was working full-time. And um, as soon as I had my daughter, um, a year later I had twin boys. My partner and I had three children in a year. You know, I had a period of time where um everything was actually relatively normal, building a life, you know, buying a home, raising my children.

Jason 12:45

It's remarkable that given the instability that you describe growing up, to now find yourself in a stable, committed relationship, you've got this family that you that you must have been dreaming about, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

So living life, um, going to school, working, doing all those great things. Yeah, I found myself in unsafe, harmful situations. I experienced a near-death strangulation that led me to having my vocal cords blown out. I could not talk, I could not function, and that unsafe situation led me to a very dangerous depression. And so experienced these circumstances that put my life at risk. I later found myself incarcerated because after that situation, I found myself coping with it through people, substances, different environments. And I see how that trauma, that near-death experience led me to the next phase into my life. What general year are we looking at now? 2014. And so um I uh met a group of people, found myself involved with one

Trauma, Coping, And The 2014 Arrest

SPEAKER_00 14:10

of the individuals, and later on was arrested for that engagement. He was a minor. And uh in the state of Arizona, uh, obviously we have several different charges that lead under that. And I got a charge of sexual conduct with a minor, and that later led me to a conviction of 10 years in prison.

Amber 14:35

So thank you for sharing that context. I know that oftentimes telling the full breadth of the story is difficult, and um, we want to honor your bravery for being here and sharing the context. So tell us a little bit about what that process looked like.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah, definitely. So I spent 21 months in Maricopa County, the Joe Arpayo, a famous jail system, and he was still actively in office at the time, and that experience was just terrific. And I'm sure every jail situation probably has similarities. I know jail is not supposed to be warm and cozy, but I ended up spending 21 months in Estrella jail. And I think that the first few months was probably the hardest for me there because that's actually when everything came coming 100 miles an hour. That is when I was able to actually reflect on what had happened in the last year with a clear mind. And what that meant for me was really having to pull the layers back and understanding what conditions led up to that decision making, why, and what was happening with my body, my mind, my life, my children, my home, my dog. It was all of it. And when you get swept away like that, you don't know when you're coming home. And in my case, I didn't have a bond. And I I was stuck there. I left and thinking I was gonna go home eventually, and I never went back home. I ended up serving eight and a half years. So the process itself, Amber, it was unique. Okay. And I'm I'm happy you asked me about this because I really wanted to share what that looks like from a lens of being inside. I was in a pod with other folks that had the same charge. And across the way we had general population, which is GP. And so we had a lot of women in and out of those spaces quite frequently. But the women who were charged this particular charge, they were segregated. And before I came, they were locked down 23 hours a day. Why? I don't know why, because they're no different than GP. They were just placed in a separate section because of the nature of their charge. And so those rules changed as soon as I got there, that folks were able to be outside of their room like everyone else. And I noticed that during this time, a few of us women were doing the best that we could to follow CPS requirements, to reunite with our children. And they offered programming that was available for the general population and the folks that were going in and out of those spaces, but not for our particular pod. And the women in our pod were doing anywhere from a year to two years. So they wanted to better themselves, whether it was just educating themselves, whether it was taking a class, basically what was being afforded to the other folks, we wanted that as well because we wanted to show the judge, like, hey, we are bettering ourselves. We are taking this time to do the best that we can. And a lot of us wanted to reunite with our children. I think that a lot of these classes being provided is it's warehousing human beings in these dorms. And there's really nothing for them to do all day, right? And so these programs are being afforded by other folks coming in to provide their free time. So I ended up filing over a hundred grievances with the jail because I was not satisfied with the fact that me and my comrades who are just trying to get through the day and move through our court case process wanted to better ourselves and to fight for our children who were siloed in the system.

Amber 18:36

What happened when you said we want to avail ourselves to these programs because we have an interest in rehabilitation and reunification with our children? What happened when you asked for that?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Absolutely. I'm so glad you asked because my attorney actually had to get involved as well as other agencies from outside. I was denied repeatedly.

Amber 19:00

So, how do you request a program for those who may never have been inside? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

So each dorm had a list of classes that folks can take, right? And so we had this big posting on our dorm that said, hey, these are all of the classes that are available. So many of us got excited and we're like, yes, we want to do that. And as soon as I had put a request in to take one of the classes, I was told that it was because of my classification that I was not eligible to take it. And so after the multiple grievances, I was getting harassed by staff. I was called names, I was locked down. In fact, they rechanged the policy book to one day before my incarceration to state that they are able to deny certain classifications programming. And so that was a really difficult time for me because initially it was about my son and me wanting to work towards family reunification, but then it became about everybody, right? Because the other women here are also trying to go home to their children and be with their families and do the best that they can with the time that they had there.

Amber 20:15

You know, I've been thinking quite a bit about this sort of idea of folks who have the wherewithal and the push to try to change systems while also surviving them. And so I just want to name the wherewithal and the strength that it takes to do that, because what I'm hearing you say is that you were experiencing all of these repercussions in a system that had control over you while also trying to change it,

Jail Segregation And Fighting For Programs

Amber 20:50

not just for yourself, but for other women and collectively do that. Other women were involved.

Jason 20:55

Yeah, and to face that type of retaliation and know that's gonna come as well, to continue doing that, put in, you said over 100 grievances, that takes a certain sort of bravery.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

I just knew it was wrong. I could see the imbalance as soon as you walk in. And it's not even about the system in general. Really, like in retrospect, when I look back, it was the culture inside the jail of how they treat folks with certain charges. I went to court off and on every month, every other month for the 21 months. And we would wake up at five in the morning, we would get shackled, ankles cuff, and were thrown on a bus with several other people that are also going through the legal system and fighting their cases. And with folks that have my particular charge, you do not blend with other people. You are segregated, you walk at the very end, you are in a different sitting on the bus as well. You might be in a separate cage, like. Seating. So from there, you were hauled to court four or five in the morning. What was really interesting moving through these spaces, a lot of times, women from my particular pod, there would only be one or two of us. There, there wasn't very many people fighting these type of charges compared to the general population. So, for instance, I'll give you an example. One morning I went to court, it was me and another lady. We step off the big black bus. We're entering into the matrix, which is the court setting. It's an underground area where you are placed in a tank. But walking through the front main entrance, there's these two huge tanks. And I remember turning over and asking the corrections officer, I should say detention officer, what are they doing here? Why are these guys separated from everyone else in those other tanks? And I was told that all of the men, and there were hundreds of them, and I'm not saying they were sitting in a room on a bench. They uh were literally just compacted in these rooms, and all of them were there for sex offenses.

Amber 23:15

So, so just to bring people into the technology, you used the word tank, and so that is a holding area or a room or a space.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

It is.

Amber 23:25

Okay. So what you're seeing is people being jam-packed into certain spaces. There's a segregation going on, and this is a new concept that you're learning about while experiencing as a woman something different.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Absolutely. That's a good way of framing it. Yes, I'm so new to all of this. It was mind-blowing to see how many people the state of Arizona is looking to convect on a broad scale. My attorney and I are working hand in hand to collect all of the mitigating factors within my case. And so while working on that, I continued to educate myself in this space and also educate myself around offenses of this nature. And I didn't realize how in-depth the exclusions are within the probation terms and actual sentencing. And I think that was something that was a challenge for me. Thinking that I would go into the system, just like the movies, it would be something that you might get a ticket or probation or something of that nature. But I was starting to realize that I was in some hot water. Something in California may carry two years. We're carrying 15 years for the same charge. During the time of me signing the plea, I saw my life literally be chosen for me on an instant message. My attorney had reached out to the prosecutor after we submitted all of the mitigating factors within my individual case. And she felt that what we were asking for wasn't unreasonable. And so we were really grateful for that. And we were trying to move forward and do the best that we can with the deal that they came up with. And she came back and said, no, I went to my higher ups and they're not accepting anything less than 10 years. And so I have my attorney sitting right next to me, and he's sitting here instant messaging her. Okay, so the five years that you initially said was going to work is no longer going to work. What about seven years? What about 7.5? What about eight? What about 8.5? What about 10?

Amber 25:52

When people think about systems, they talk about, oh, we're holding people accountable and this is justice and all of the things. As you're trying to navigate this process, were you thinking to yourself, I need to critically think about any harm that I've caused to someone? Was that what was on your mind?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yes. During this time, I was reflecting on, okay, I made this decision and how has it impacted not only my life, but my family, my children, the community. I did take that into consideration. And moving through the spaces, I think something big that came out for me is that a lot of folks, I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of folks are already dealing with trauma or issues prior to being captured. Sometimes I think that it can be difficult to self-reflect and have those other areas of healing when you have an unnatural system that is working in every way against you to heal.

Amber 26:57

The system was not providing a lot of space for you to reflect on any meaningful recountability because you're trying to survive the system.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Exactly. Yes. Everyone in the room was asked to leave for my conviction. And when I stood up and I saw everybody walking out, I realized that it's A, I'm here being convicted of a sex offense, and B, I'm a woman. And in that moment, when the judge started reading out the charges and what took place and my conviction, I realized that I wasn't the only one that was dealing with this. I had other women back at the pod. We had the hundreds of men being convicted through the jail system. And here I am standing here. The entire room has left and I'm ready to take the punishment that the state is going to give me. But I think in that moment, it felt very isolating. I felt segregated. I felt like an anomaly, really. When I look back at even my own individual timeline and then moving through these spaces with other folks, I could see how, yes, losing my mother at a young age and then losing my aunt, and then essentially being separated from my family and children and losing them to an eight and a half year sentence. And then having to create a new family while being inside is another thing that takes place, especially when you're there for a long period of time. You create like a pseudo-family. And when you actually leave prison, you have to say goodbye to that family in some aspects. And now you're back home with the original family that you were meant to be with.

Amber 28:57

So um while you were incarcerated, you mentioned like trying to press so that you could be re

Prison Time, Family Contact, And The Costs

Amber 29:05

uh unified with children. Did you have interaction with your family?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

So I was able to see my children off and on during incarceration. It's very difficult. A lot of prisons are stuck way out there in the middle of nowhere. It's time, it's money, the vending machines. It all cost a ton of money. And asking for families to bring kids and pay the cost of all that, it is a lot on families in general. And it was a lot on my family. So I was able to see my children, not as much as I had liked, but I'm still so grateful for those opportunities because clearly I was able to see other women who didn't have their children at all. We had phone calls, and you do you get a certain amount of phone calls per day. We eventually got tablets, and we were able to connect with our family and friends through emails. Again, all of this cost, and most folks in prison make anywhere from 10 cents to 50 cents an hour. And in the real world, like an email would be free, but you're paying for an email there off of pennies to a dollar. And you have to decide when you're in there. Am I going to eat this week or am I going to choose a phone call? Am I going to get hygiene this week or am I going to pay that medical bill? And so there's a lot of tough choices there with the way that the structure is set up inside prison as far as care goes.

Amber 30:33

So did you end up serving the full 10 years?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So I ultimately served eight years and six months. There was no additional programming available to reduce that anymore. I always thought that prison offered programming to everybody that allows folks to show good behavior and be able to reintegrate, maybe even a little bit earlier than their sentence. And after moving through the spaces, I realized that it's very subjective. It's incremental. It's for certain people with certain charges.

Amber 31:07

If you get to take advantage of this program, did you notice that there were exclusions that were based on violent charges as well?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Absolutely. I still think it's absolutely absurd to even try to come up with a policy that is built on one category versus the other. You have somebody with a certain amount of methamphetamines and they get charged an extra five years because they had a little over amount than maybe somebody else had. And so that distinction causes such a huge disparity in sentencing. And so, yes, I absolutely noticed that.

Amber 31:47

Did you find people that looked the same as you? Did you notice anything inside about what sort of set type of demographics were incarcerated with you? And particularly keeping in mind this is a women's facility.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

It's funny you say that because as a child growing up and seeing jail and the whole idea that there's these hardcore criminals that are just gangbanging, that's not the idea at all. From what I've seen, is that certain folks might be more vulnerable to the state's clutches and reaches, folks who have maybe experienced more trauma or living in poverty. There could be so many things. And also I would like to point out that it is known that there's 4,000 plus innocent people in the system. And so I always try to shy away from saying that everyone in prison is broken. Everyone there had some type of an issue. And that's simply not the case. But you could simply be at the wrong place at the wrong time and could be captured.

Amber 32:51

So tell us what what happens? You know, you say goodbye to your found family, you're released, um, you're going back into the world.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yep. So even though I'm technically free now, my life is still structured by the system. I was one of the lucky ones. Only 5% of the prison population at Perryville was able to get a retention job, which means that you're able to save more hourly-wise than 10 to 50 cents an hour. So I was able to save a substantial amount of money in the six years that I worked for the sales and marketing company. I've been here for eight and a half years, and now I'm ready to go home and I've done everything I could to do the be the best that I could with the limited resources that the prison offers. And now I'm stuck with again being dependent on the prison to allow me to find housing, to allow me to safely return home. And so that was really difficult. I was able to work with a friend prior to coming home, and she helped me find a home through a private renter. So I did pre-pay a few months, uh, did not have a job again, navigating, have a home, don't have a job. I'm back with my family that I left. Again, I'm feeling kind of like an alien, right? Because I've been gone for so long.

Jason 34:19

What year did you get out?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

I got out in 2023.

Jason 34:23

So you went through COVID in prison. And you've got to somehow get integrated back in and become a mom again.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Absolutely. And I think a big challenge I've had is gosh, identity, right? For a long time, my identity was my children before I went to prison. And then going to prison, my identity was shaped over time. This blurs the lines between who I am and who I've been shaped to be, being in and out of systems. What I had in my mind definitely was not what I came home to, right? And so I think that when you're in there, you start fantasizing about things, you want things to be just perfect. And the bottom line is life moved on, and my children moved on too. They grew up and started their own lives. And so I had to figure out Shauna and what Shauna was gonna do outside of her children, outside of family, and that's uh what I've had to do.

Jason 35:18

And it I imagine there's a kind of grieving process you have to go through to accept where you are.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

No words, no words for that, honestly, Jason. And a lot of those things I you think that you're just gonna come home and everything's just gonna be back to normal and things are just gonna fix on its own. It doesn't work that way. It it's easy to be highly triggered over certain things, even now living with one of my adult sons. I've had to grieve the loss of those years of being gone. Seeing him now in his natural state and being so happy and grateful and proud, but at the same time realizing that loss, right? And so I'm sure every person's journey is a little different, and that's been a tough one. And I'm still navigating those relationships.

Amber 36:12

Donna, I I love that you are being so clear about this idea. It's easy when someone might listen to a podcast and they want to sum somebody's story up from start to finish in an hour or whatever, but naming the journey, there's no like situation where someone arrives at wholeness. The j like this is the human condition, right? Yeah. So I really appreciate you sharing that part of the journey because incarceration or not, there is no one destination, it's only the journey.

Jason 36:48

We want to be there for our kids, but we also want to be there with our kids. And so it's I'm glad that you shared what you shared, Shauna. Yeah, and really want to underscore that the pain that you feel is real.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Thank you so much. And I think that it's it's much more layered than that, too. And what I mean by that when it comes to parenting is that I parent under structure, not full freedom. I have to

Reentry Grief And Rebuilding Identity

SPEAKER_00 37:15

hold the constant reality that there is always risk of being sent back. I cannot fully promise permanence or long-term stability in the way that I want to as a mother. My children feel that uncertainty and the weight of it. And they also experience public stigma and often take on like the protector gatekeeper rules. Yeah, and isolation increases because our movement and participation are limited.

Jason 37:42

I'm glad you shared that. Like, even I'm just thinking about if you wanted to take a family vacation somewhere, most people don't think about that, but for you, that's something you have to plan, ask for permission, right? Get the okay to go. Going in certain countries isn't even going to be allowed.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

No, I'm glad that you mentioned that because yes, my life is monitored across multiple agencies working together, and that is probation, surveillance, treatment providers, and polygraph examiners. They all intersect under the containment model. So I have to provide weekly updates and treatment groups, thoughts, activities, and intimate behaviors. What I share in treatment is reported back to supervision. So my identity definitely becomes tied to performance, compliance, and evaluation. And a lot of times a system can feel more pathological and risk focused rather than like healing focused. And this creates a constant hyperalertness and self-monitoring. So even with me, I constantly have to evaluate what is the state and what is me.

Amber 38:49

Yeah. So you mentioned the containment model, and I really appreciate you explaining sort of what that looks like. Could you expound upon is this sort of containment model applicable to whom?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I'm glad that you asked. So just in case other folks might not know what the containment model

The Containment Model And Conditional Freedom

SPEAKER_00 39:10

is, it was developed in the late 1980s and 1990s. It combines supervision treatment and polygraph testing in like a triangle type of setting. It is designed around risk management rather than traditional rehabilitation. And the treatment requires ongoing disclosure, which is basically shared with supervising authorities. And this creates a feedback loop between therapy and surveillance. So, with a container model, yes, right now the vast majority of people convicted of uh sexual offenses are men. This reflects both like the patterns reported across broader social and cultural enforcement dynamics. However, we're starting to see a lot of that changing as far as who's being captured. And it's really about who's vulnerable to the state. And so I have seen women, folks who identify as trans. It's no longer that cookie-cutter, white heterosexual male profile. And so that is something that we should definitely make note of because there is growing discussion about how systems impact individuals and people with histories of trauma who may experience like heightened vulnerability within those frameworks.

Amber 40:28

So when we think about like the containment model, I just want to mention for those who are listening that this is something that is largely applicable to people who are convicted of sexual offenses. So in some states, particularly I know for sure in Connecticut, the feedback loop also includes victim advocates. So when people have to navigate asking permission through something called an action plan to do some sort of action, which is basically this is the thing I'm gonna do, and these are the risk factors that I have to say that I have, because this is what this the sort of system has told me are my risk factors. That then also has to be approved by a victim advocate that is not necessarily associated with the person who was victimized in the case. So it is it is a complicated system. And some of the questions that people ask about it is like, what do you mean like people are subject to polygraph tests? That doesn't apply in the criminal justice system. Those are not admissible. What are your thoughts on that, Shauna?

SPEAKER_00 41:37

No, absolutely. I'm glad that you mentioned that because that is a big deal. When we go back to like what it was like in the 1980s, a lot of folks would just get a prison sentence and then they would get out, right? And their time was done. But now we see punishment extending beyond prison into lifelong surveillance. So for instance, my mom went to prison, she got out, and that was it, right? I went to prison, and me coming home basically, my past is used continuously to define my identity. Um I'm dealing with lifetime registry, public exposure, lifetime probation, surveillance, mandatory treatment, polygraphs, other forms of testing. Life is structured around compliance. So your freedom is conditional, it's not fully restored. And so, yes, I think that what doesn't get talked about is the harm that not only what it does to you with your personal information being made publicly on the registry, but also what does that look like for your family, right? And my daughter, here's a good example. I came home and my profile picture in the registry was published and repackaged by other folks online as a highlight with other profiles. And so I received the most hits. There were comments made, objective comments, things like that. And my child saw that and became very protective and started making comments. And so this is something that, you know, when we think about that unmeasured harm, it does lead to our children being exposed to online harm. There's safety concerns with your address publicly being available. There's constant hypervigilance, uncertainty of who may have your information. And really it's a loss of privacy by association, right? So our family are taking on the indirect punishment at the end of this. And so, yes, today, the current direction, I see just more digital surveillance, more monitoring, longer control after completion. And I think that I'm in the thick of that right now.

Jason 43:52

Shauna, thank you for sharing all that. And you know, what I'm hearing a lot of is just that any type of healing that happens through the Containment model is not because of the containment model, but be despite it. And the harm that you talk about that's caused to your family. Um, and it's good that you highlight that because we never want to lose sight of the fact that this thing that's supposed to be protecting uh children, protecting families, is actually doing the the opposite. We're creating conditions that are creating more harm, which could lead to other types of offenses and things and just harm in general. So thank you for highlighting that. I'm gonna turn it back over to you and ask you to tell us a little bit about some of the things that you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yeah, absolutely. With everything, uh moving into different systems and having to navigate them simultaneously

Turning Lived Experience Into Policy Work

SPEAKER_00 44:50

has led me into being here with you today, first and foremost. Um, the first time I've ever publicly shared my story. So I'm very grateful to spend this time with y'all. But also in building the public identity of Collaborative Justice Institute with a group of folks. And our goal is to translate lived experience into policy language. We don't have enough data out there from those that are impacted. A lot of policies that are being pushed through through different states and nationally are just being pushed through without actual research. Policies stack incrementally over decades, and each new law adds another layer of surveillance, restriction, or exclusion. And so what begins is punishment can evolve into lifelong governance of identity and behavior. And that's where I come in, right? And just as of right now, being able to share those experiences and being able to translate that in a way that makes sense around systems is what I'm currently doing right now. I'm working with other folks who are also advocating in these spaces, also highlighting different areas of systems. Not only is it just the criminal justice system, but also the foster system, right? And that's also something I wanted to talk about too, is I've had some interactions with the foster system. It intersects so deeply with the criminal justice system. You know, when we think about like the 1970s and the 1980s, um the

Foster Care, Adoption Timelines, And Mass Incarceration

SPEAKER_00 46:35

state doesn't always separate families through force. Sometimes it's through timelines, paperwork, and policy. And in the 70s and 80s, we had the US, they began shifting towards tougher criminal punishment policies, the war on drugs, era expands. And during this time, a lot of parents, especially poor parents and parents of color, begin entering prison systems uh at a rapid pace. So that family separation increases nationally. Then when we move into the 80s and 90s, we have foster care systems becoming overcrowded. And so at this point, policymakers begin pushing permanence as a solution. And then we move into the 1994, which is the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which expands mass incarceration and truth and sentencing. And this actually gave out longer prison sentences, more parents separated from children for years. Um, and so I think the biggest change for America was in 1997 Adoption and Safe Families Act passes. So Bill Clinton signed this law into act. What it did is it prioritized adoption and permanency timelines. So states were financially incentivized to increase spinal adoptions. And so when we look at Arizona, um, Arizona has developed a reputation for aggressive sentencing policies, fast adoption permanency practices. And a lot of the times, you know, when we think about what intersects, it's the poverty, addiction, trauma, imprisonment, especially because you can't meet CPS expectations, is interpreted as unfit. And so I wanted to bring that up because when we think about adoption, there's the the glory side of it and what it's meant to do. But also when we talk about Arizona or other states who have high incarcerated fat, we can easily connect that uh intersection to adoption and why fast track adoption and babies are being adopted out so quickly.

Amber 48:39

And so you're sort of making this connection between the rise of mass incarceration, disproportionate to certain populations, whether it's socioeconomic or race-based or all of those things, to family separation and quick adoptions as a solution to release some of that pressure on systems that were meant for reunification and all of those things, because they were in active opposition to each other. If you're incarcerating people longer, right, what do we do now? So I appreciate you bringing that up. And so when you think about sort of those statistics and that timeline and all of those things and Shauna's story, does that track with your lived experience?

SPEAKER_00 49:26

It does. Because when I can sit back and look at my entire life being born into the system from birth to actively seeing my life on a public registry for the rest of my life, that comes with something that comes with experience and knowledge. And that is something, unfortunately, that I have gained being so deeply into the different systems, right? But with that perspective, with the things that I have gained, I feel that I am able to help other folks who are not only going through the system, but also those that are navigating it coming home. But also just understanding patterns. What happened to me was not isolated. Patterns repeat across generations. And I am part of the pattern, not separate from it. So the same system shaped my life in different ways. I wasn't an exception, I was just evidence of how it continued. So I am just a face of state violence. And with that comes all of the things that I have been through, which I'm hoping that as I continue with my advocacy efforts, I can help connect with other folks that are going through similar situations, that are navigating the registry, treatment, things like that, and be able to help create change based on those experiences.

Amber 50:57

Um Shauna, what is what have been some of the most useful things that you've encountered? We've talked a lot about systems that, like, oh, they didn't provide this, or there were challenges with this. As you've sort of returned home, are there people, organizations, systems, little shining nuggets, lights that you've encountered that have provided warm accompaniment or added to some sort of safety for you?

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Um yes, there has been. And through moments of release, of feeling scared or isolated, were what's next in my path, right? I have found a home in a couple of different places, actually. One being is a group of strong women who come together on a monthly basis and share their unique experiences, their struggles, their joys, all that good stuff. And I have found my way to a couple of organizations. One in particular is a national one who just loves everyone and allows their platform and space and organization to accept everyone with open arms. And I think that coming home with this type of charge, already having the societal negativity that stems from it, and also navigating employment and everyday life. Yes, I have found connection with others who may also be labeled as deviant based on their offense category or their identity reduced to a registry status, or they're crime-shamed versus being understood. It's amazing because again, we go back to identity and I realize that I'm not the only one, that there are other folks out there that are also having to navigate these struggles, and we're much more than an offense category.

Amber 53:03

Yeah. And so if you had one piece of advice that you

Advice, Support, And How To Connect

Amber 53:10

could give to someone who was at the beginning of a journey similar to your own, what might it be?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

To learn the system carefully, to protect your peace relentlessly, and never let a legal label become your entire identity.

Amber 53:30

Shauna, wow, that really lands and I know certainly resonates with me.

Jason 53:36

Thank you, Shauna, for being with us today. It was great to talk with you. I mean, wow, what an experience you've had in life. And you talked about your freedom being conditional, not fully restored, but you're already doing some wonderful, amazing things, and you will continue to just do more of that and having you come here as your first public outing experience and speaking. I know it may be your first, but it will clearly not be your last. So thank you for being here, Shauna.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Thank you.

Amber 54:11

Shauna, thank you so much for being with us today. We are thrilled to have had you with us. I do want to let everyone know if they want to get in contact with you, that you are connected with Restorative Action Alliance. And please reach out to Amplified Voices or Restorative Action Alliance on our website, RestorativeActionAliance.org or admin at restorativeactionalliance.org.

Jason 54:33

And with that, until next time, Amber. We'll see you next time.

Outro 54:41

You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. For more information, episodes, and podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoices.show.