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Amplified Voices
Amplified Voices is a podcast that lifts the voices of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. Hosts Jason and Amber speak with real people in real communities to help them step into the power of their lived experience. Together, they explore shared humanity and real solutions for positive change.
Amplified Voices
Fez & Vern (Jericho Circle): The Transformative Power of Circles - Season 5 Episode 10
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In this powerful episode, Amber and Jason meet Fez, who spent 22 years in prison, and Vern, who has volunteered with the Jericho Circle for 25 years. Together, they share the transformative impact of circle work both inside prison walls and beyond.
Fez's story begins with a childhood lacking affection and stability, which paved his path to juvenile detention at 15 and later a 22-29 year sentence. When he first entered prison, his mindset was focused solely on revenge. "I'm going to get out and finish what I started," he recalls thinking. But something profound happened when he encountered the Native American Circle and later the Jericho Circle.
The simple yet powerful structure of circle— where the group focuses on interconnectedness and shared humanity and participants use a talking stick to ensure each person speaks uninterrupted —created a space where Fez could confront his past, take responsibility, and begin genuine healing. "People share very deep traumatic events in their lives," Fez explains. "We're there supporting them."
What makes Jericho Circle unique is that it operates entirely through volunteers with no government funding. The circle keepers receive no compensation yet continue showing up because, as Vern puts it, "The healing was as deeply felt in me as in anyone else."
Now five years free, Fez has built a successful life and serves as a circle guide himself, creating space for others to heal.
Their story challenges conventional approaches and offers a powerful model of transformation through community, vulnerability, and genuine human connection.
Visit JerichoCircle.org to learn more about this life-changing work.
Everyone has a voice, a story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. What if there were a way to amplify those stories, to have conversations with real people in real communities, a way to help them step into the power of their lived experience? Welcome to Amplified Voices, a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. Together, we can create positive change for everyone.
Jason:Hello, welcome to another episode of Amplified Voices. I'm your host, Jason, here with my co-host, Amber. Good morning, Amber.
Amber:Good morning Jason.
Jason:Amber, today we have two guests with us. First we have Fez and we have Vern, and later we're going to hear about Fez's story and a little bit about the Jericho Circle. Good morning, Vern and Fez. Good morning.
Amber:Good morning everyone.
Jason:And can you tell us a little bit about your life before you entered the criminal legal system and what brought you into it?
Fez:So I'm gonna start off my childhood. So growing up grew up with a family that we really didn't show affection, so there was always something there. You felt like something was missing. You felt like that lack of compassion, lack of love, drug addiction, family a lot of drug addiction and domestic violence also was involved there, and so it is a typical, you know, when people describe, you know the broken house, you know the only outcome of that is either jail or death. It's chaos. So I grew up in Springfield Mass Actually, the North tends to be specific and I had my mom, my dad.
Jason:Springfield. Just for people who aren't from our part of the country, Springfield is just over the border from Connecticut, right, so even though I'm right outside of the Hartford area, I could come visit you and be there in like half hour, and Springfield is known to be one of those cities that has a lot of crime, right? Yes. Okay, so in your family, the makeup of your family.
Fez:So I have an older sister and a younger brother, okay.
Jason:And both of your parents were in the home.
Fez:At the time. Yes, they eventually separated. I ended up going to juvie hall and I'll get into that. So you know, growing up you're missing that love, you're missing that affection. You're always striving to find that. So how else, when you become a little older, how is that reflected Relationships? How else, when you become a little older, how is that reflected Relationships At the time being young and stuff like that. I was very obsessive. I didn't know how to let go. So I ended up in some bad relationships. We're talking about young, 13, 14. I'm still a kid and my mentality at the time was I'm searching for that love. I'm searching for that thing that's missing in my life and I thought I would get it from here. So I ended up committing a crime. I ended up arson, to be specific, and I ended up in Drueve Hall. While in Drueve Hall, my mom and dad finally did separate, I ended up getting out after, I'd say, about 17 months after I say about 17 months.
Jason:Amber, did we ever have we had anybody else who's talked about being incarcerated before they were an adult?
Amber:Yeah, we've had a few. So for those people, they're not as familiar with the criminal legal system. They know what they know from TV about what Judy Hall is about. So tell us the real experience.
Fez:So unlike adult prison, you're considered juvenile, so they still provide schooling, good breakfast, good lunches and stuff like that and they keep you busy. They it's mandatory, it's not like you don't have a choice. You're a juvenile, you have to participate in these things. So they make sure that you're going to school, that you're getting fed, that you're exercising, the whole, whatever group you're well, unit you're in. Because it's different depending if you're waiting trial, if you've been convicted of a crime. So, depending that, then there's different structures. Now, once you get convicted, then they'll send you to a program. There's different structures Now once you get convicted, then they'll send you to a program. There's different programs depending the area and then it's the same thing.
Fez:You're still going to school, you still make sure you go to school better food than upstate, you know. And they make sure you exercise and stuff like that, because they want to make sure you know you're a kid. They want to supervise you as an adult. They offer mental health services. If you wanted a counseling, and some of that is mandatory. Like they force you to like once a week or whatever you have to go and you talk to your counselor and stuff like that. So they keep you in that structure, opposed to adult prison, is like they don't care your number what was the vibe, though?
Jason:Did you feel like you were there and you were getting help that was going to put you on a better path, or did you feel that you were in an environment that was going to take whatever you were dealing with and kind of make it worse?
Fez:the choice is yours. Okay, that's in life is yours. They provide the tools, but it's up to you to decide if you want to utilize it but you were 13 years old, I was you know, at the time I was I think I was like 15 to 16 around there- okay, so 15, 16.
Jason:So I mean you're certainly not performing at the level of an adult. No, and you didn't have stable upbringing to be with.
Fez:They provide the programming, they provide the counseling, they provide all that, but we're not. When you're a young kid, you're not thinking of that. There was also sexual abuse involved in my life and that contributed also to me committing crime. You combine the fact that I lack love at home, I'm searching for love, and then you get groups that show you that love, whether it's abusive or something Most kids gravitate to.
Fez:That I think there was a TV show of this kid that was being bullied. It was Netflix. It became famous. He was getting bullied and even though he knew he was getting bullied, he would still keep going to his bully because he was getting something from it. Even though it was negative, he was still getting something from it. And the same thing is when you're growing up and you lack something my family, no communication at all so you develop certain perspectives and you're a kid you really don't know. I go to Juvenile, juvenile and I didn't mention that I was sexually abused until that's where the counseling started. They made me go to counseling and I would see them regularly. But unless I was willing to really utilize those programs, then it doesn't matter. I'm not saying the state doesn't provide, the state does provide it.
Amber:But in the culture today and society today, what is being put forth doesn't show kids how to utilize this system, doesn't show kids how to really improve and grow as an individual, as you're speaking, I'm thinking about, first of all, I'm sorry that you encountered abuse, so you know, just taking a pause to recognize that and acknowledge that. I think you mentioned a few key points about young people, and one of the things that we see in systems, whether it's in the juvenile system or it's in the overall larger system, is this idea of mandatory, this mandatory that forcing people to do that, and there is some value in guiding people towards things right. However, when people are forced to do things, it goes against this concept that's called responsivity.
Fez:Yeah.
Amber:Okay. So this is is this going to be effective? Because this person is a ready for it, this person is be at a place where they can even understand it. Is it culturally appropriate? Is it age appropriate? Are all of those things appropriate? So, on one hand, it's like well, we gave you this thing and it was on you. I mean. Even now you're saying it was all up to you. However, that can be somewhat true, but it can also be true that if you don't have the tools to even accept love or help at a time in your life and our culture tells us right that taking help, particularly as a man, is weak- yeah.
Amber:That's not something that is going to be as helpful as maybe it could have been.
Jason:I love that you said that, amber. I think this is going to be a great contrast to what we discuss later when we talk about the jericho circle. So what fez is doing is setting us up for later, because what you got here, what you didn't get that you could have gotten, you did get later on.
Amber:I just want to underscore that I just have one other thing that I want to point out, because you mentioned, oh, there was good food, right, and so that may feel surprising to people. Right, and make the comparison to adult prison.
Fez:Once you get up to adult prison it's no salt, no seasoning, nothing. It's just. You know, a funny story is they had this meat. We just call it mystery meat. We don't, honestly, we don't even know if it was horse camel. It was that bad and it was veiny and I did most of my time working in the kitchen in prison. People were like that's horrible. I wouldn't even feed that to my camels. It was so funny. But that's just an idea of how horrible the food is. You know, yeah, so you know know.
Fez:Going back to juvie is yeah, you know they provide certain things, they can mentor. You know school. You make sure you go to school, counseling, programming, exercising but again, if you're not in the right set mind, you're not going to utilize that. The same thing in adult prison, which I'll get to right now. So after juvenile I got out and I wasn't even out a year and then I ended up taking somebody's life and went back to prison. Now this is big house.
Fez:I did about 18 months in Lolo that's the county jail, lolo, hampton County and then I pled guilty to a reduced charge. So I was facing natural life. So if I took the trial, found guilty, I would have been natural life. And this is a crazy story. I always tell this because I don't know where this came from. So I'm in the bullpen and I'm waiting. We're going to start trial soon.
Fez:My lawyer comes to me, so I go to the bars and he's like yeah, so they're offering you 15 to life. That means life with the possibility of parole after 15 years. And I looked at him and I said come at me with numbers that don't come at all. And to this day I don't know where that came from. That was just instant it happened. So he said okay, so he left. He came back and he said well, they'll offer you 22 to 29 years. I'm like I got to talk to my mom. So they arranged it A few minutes later put me out, they take me to a conference room. My mom's there and I'm saying Mom, this is the situation. I can take life with a possibility of parole after 15 years or I can take 22 to 29. She looked at me and she said you're doing the time, not me, you decide. So I'm like all right, so at the time they weren't giving paroles like they were now. Now they're giving paroles out Back then, you know.
Jason:Fez. Some people have trouble deciding where they're going to go to have lunch. That's quite a decision.
Fez:So at the time they weren't giving paroles out like that. It was almost miracles. You needed a miracle to get paroled back then. So I was like, well, it's 22 to 29. At least I know I'm getting out one day, regardless of what. If I survive, I'm getting out one day. So that's what I took. I took 22 to 29. 29. And I must say something that's very important which kind of helped me a lot mindset. Once I got upstate, Of course you get in the bullpen drive like two, three hours in the back of a wagon with a bunch of other people sick.
Fez:We get to. At the time Conker was in take. So we go to Conker. It looks like it was one big hangar. We're all lining up in their clubs. They take us out, strip us, check us and they give us peanut butter jelly sandwich. It's like three o'clock in the morning now. They walk us to the. You see the hospital. You got to go in mandatory check up. They ask you questions and all this. Then they walk you to the pot and I walk in there and it's three tiers dark prison, like three tiers. You got three tiers up bars and the seal says that's just so over there. So I'm carrying this mattress with me and a bag of linen up the stairs going there.
Fez:Thankfully they put me with one of the guys that was that was with me getting transferred over there, so that kind of worked out, because I just hadn't. It wasn't a stranger. So when I was when on the intake, when I went, when I first got there, it was an old guy. You know he's there, he works for the prison. You know you get jobs in the prison, so he worked for the prison and he basically just when you come in, he'll make sure you got your clothes, your linen, and so that's what he does. His job is that he privates it out. He's asking people how much time he's doing and stuff like that. When I told him he's like now he was an old-timer, he was down for a long time and he was on his way out. He says listen, I'm going to give you the best advice ever Forget about the world, Forget about your family, Forget about the outside world. Your life is this now. And I looked at him and I was like I didn't understand why he's mad. But it helped a lot.
Fez:So from there I wasn't even in Concord. I think I was in Concord for about a month because they had just opened Sousa Baranowski the Supermats. So they were just shipping everybody over there to fill it up. So after like about a month I got shipped to the Supermats, to Shirley, and I was there for almost eight years Now. The whole time I was there I worked in the kitchen Kitchen. Then I got involved in Native American Circle there. That was my first experience with the Native American Circle. I started getting involved with that. Now my whole thing is I got to get good timing.
Fez:My mentality was still street mentality. People that knew me back then will tell you I used to talk and say I don't care, I'm going to do my time, I'm going to go and get out and I'm going to finish what I started. That was my mentality at the time when I first got to prison. I'm like I'm a stubborn person, very strong-willed, strong-minded, and when I said something in my mind I got to do it. I don't care, I'm going to get out and I'm going to finish what I started. And that time was the match. It's a different atmosphere. They closed Walpole so they had all the Walpole guys there. So it was just man, what year did you go to prison?
Jason:I went to in 97 I went to county 99. I was upstate beginning. What you're describing now happens in 1999, so that's quite a while ago. Yeah, and when you say finish what you started, what does that mean?
Fez:It was violence. I still wasn't that mentality. I'm going to get these people back. They caused this. I wasn't taking responsibility. I was blaming them. I was like you made me do this. I'm not getting into details of the crime, but it was something that was kind of stupid Really. It could have been avoided.
Jason:So what you're describing is, when you got into prison, you had one way of viewing the world and something changed. Yes, something came into your life that made it change. Yeah, can we talk through some of that?
Fez:Yeah, I said it from the beginning the individual has to make the choice to change. So when I was in the mass, my mentality was I'm going to do as much program as I can because I want to get that good time. I want to get out of prison as fast as possible. So I was doing every single program for the good time, not necessarily because I want to be rehabilitated, not because I want to change, because I want to get out as soon as possible Right. So that was when I first to get out as soon as possible, right. So that was when I first came in. That was my mentality. I want to get out and get some payback. These people made me do this because I was not assuming responsibility. I was like you made me do this, you gave me no choice, you made me do this. So I'm blaming you. I'm not taking responsibility for what I did. I'm blaming you. I'm not taking responsibility for what I did, I'm blaming you. And that was my mindset at the beginning of the years.
Fez:I got involved with the Native Circle in the mass and that started something in me. You know the teachings and learning. And then there was an incident in the mass. Some may know about it, some may not know, but the Gagan the priest got murdered. I don't know if you're familiar with it. So at the time there was a priest. He got convicted and got arrested, so he got murdered in the mass. So it started this whole thing of why was he even there, this old man, this old priest? Why was he even there, this old man, this old priest? Why was he even in the super mats? So that started this whole overhaul of the point system, because the level of prison you're in is determined by a point system. So they basically redid it and because I was in the mats for like almost eight years, they're like yeah, you got to go, you're not an issue, you're not a problem, this is a facility for problematic people. So a bunch of us got kicked out of there, literally got kicked out. Yeah, you guys are leaving, we're shipping you somewhere else. So they did a class board and then they shipped us out.
Fez:So now there's a group of guys that I know that I met in the MAPS and we literally did the whole bit. Like when I got to the MAPS in 99, there were my unit, alex Cuz, bigga, chris, you know, and then we all got shipped out. They left like a month in. Like three weeks later I got shipped. So we were all month. Then, like three weeks later they got shipped. So we were all. We all got stuck together.
Fez:So we ended up in Norfolk and the good thing is that me personally I don't socialize like that. So I stuck with the group of guys that I knew for years because we were all building, we're all trying to get out of prison so we're all staying out of trouble. You know the drugs, the gambling, the stupidity. We stayed away from that. We all just chilled together and that helped a lot. That, that group that I established with these guys. And so I get to norfolk. And our norfolk is completely different than the mats. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. This wall's big yard and it's open and they offer a lot of programming and stuff like that. And one of the programs they offer was Jericho Circle and they had that Native American there. The programs that they offer, a lot of them are one shot, one deal. So once you do it, that's it. You can't.
Amber:And then you check it off. You can't go back, you can't do it, that's it, you can't. And then you check it off. You can't go back, you can't do it again.
Fez:So, you know, once I did all the programming, I'm stuck. I'm like focused. I got to get that good time, get out of prison as soon as possible, but while there I don't know how to explain it, we call it a summer soft thought where finally it just clicked. And it's like you know, at the time I was doing the Native Circle, we talk a lot about respecting, you know, human life, respecting this and that, and I knew there's a lot of issues that I had that I had to deal with. And that's where the Jericho Circle came in, like it's a very powerful thing.
Jason:So by the time you get to the Jericho Circle, you had some experience with a different type of circle with this Native Circle. By the time you get to the Jericho Circle, you had some experience with a different type of circle with this native circle. Yeah, it kind of lit a spark in you. It sounds like, yeah, it made you curious and like, hey, I want to get involved with this. So when you heard about the Jericho Circle, it wasn't mandated, was it so?
Fez:upstate programming is not mandatory.
Amber:They're just like do it, don't do it, that's all on you. You know, sit in your cell and rot.
Jason:Now, when you get there, was the Jericho Circle already established and you would be joining an established circle, or was this a new pilot program?
Amber:I also have a very important question about circle. Before we move on, Fez, could you explain to people who don't know, like how is a circle different than like just going to a support group or going to a Bible study? What is it?
Fez:about circle. That's a little different than just going to some kind of group. Well, I mean it's up to an individual. See, the Native circle is called circle. We're all connected. It's the same. It's the religion. Native circle is basically Native American religion. You know, you had your Catholicism there, you had your Christianity there, you had your Muslims there. You have all that available if that's what you choose for your religion. I personally went with the Native American Circle and got involved in 99 and I stayed involved. And the cool thing is that Jericho Circle a lot of it is similar with you, know the way the structure is. That jericho circle a lot of it's similar with you, know the way the structure and and in fact a lot of them are involved with native traditions. A lot of people that go to jericho circle are involved in native traditions so that you sit in a physical circle?
Amber:yes, and is there a particular way that you interact? Um, are there tools that you use when people are speaking? Talk a little bit about that.
Fez:So we have a talking stick. So it's basically whoever has the stick has the floor.
Jason:Where are we right now? The native circle, the Jericho circle, or both?
Fez:We're at the native circle, even though the Jericho circle has utilized the same thing in the intensive weekend.
Fez:They have an intensive weekend where from Friday all the way to Sunday, that's all we do. It's hardcore working on yourself with Jericho Circle and they have utilized the talking stick and stuff like more native stuff there, so it's awesome. But the talking stick is basically one of the major thing in the circle and it goes around. Everybody gets their say they get to talk and you respect the person in it. You don't interrupt, you let them. When they finish, then they pass it on.
Amber:Yeah, so you learn the structure of circle.
Fez:Yeah.
Amber:From an indigenous-based circle. Okay, very good.
Fez:Yeah. So they also had other programs. Another cool program that I did a like four times manjeli. He was the librarian and he was cool, but he had that weird sense of humor but he got along with me fine. I used to go over there and bother him like, come on, let me do programs, like I've already done it three times. I'm like I know, but I need a good time. Come on to let me in and it was called think first. Take stock of your situation. How do you feel? Is more information needed? Name facts and opinions. Know where you stand. Figure out a goal. Isolate solution. Isolate the solution. Reflect on consequences, select plan, take action. Now it seems like a long process, right when you break it down like that, but in reality that happens like that in life. The moment you come across a situation, it down like that. But in reality that happens like that in life. The moment you come across a situation, it happens like that you're like wow, I could rattle that right off.
Fez:Seems long, but I did it a lot yeah, because I did the program like five times for the good time. You know, I pretty much got used to it. But it helped too in a way, because so we, you read a book and then you do book reports. He had questioning when, where, where a character failed to do something, where character did something. So we did the lord of the rings, we did malcolm matt's what was the other one? It was a sagic western, it was cool book. But I can't remember we did a couple couple. But that helped too. So in reality, it's not just one thing that changes the individual, it's multiple things, multiple factors. But, like I said, it always comes down to the individual. Do you want to change? Do you want to take steps to better yourself, to change your life, or are you stuck in that vicious cycle?
Jason:So, fez, you brought up Jericho Circle. We talked about that for a little bit. Can we go back to that? You brought someone with you today, so this might be a great opportunity to hear from Vern a little bit about his perspective and to share a little bit about the Jericho Circle.
Fez:Yeah, absolutely.
Jason:So Vern welcome.
Vern:I will say I first met Fez in the Native American Circle, which I do every 28 days at Norfolk have for 15 years. Jericho does provide respect. Fez talked about that An opportunity to speak. We speak for ourselves, we tell the truth. I knew Big Eye, I knew these people. Some of them came into the circle. We welcome all beliefs Native American, whatever Islam, Christian or non-beliefs, and we build safety. So we're there to listen to each other and respect what is said, whatever that truth is, and some extraordinary things are said and worked on and it's a beautiful experience to go in there and sit with people and be genuine.
Amber:be real. There is no possibility for readiness until you feel safe and you feel valued and you feel like you are a human, and so a lot of the central tenets of Circle is that everybody in Circle has equal value. Has that panned out in your experience?
Vern:Absolutely, and we are there as facilitators to defend, to clean up anything immediately in the circle, in the field, the emotional field. If there's an attack, if there's a side comment that doesn't work, that doesn't fit, that isn't respectful, clean it up now so that there is a genuine, a deep feeling that it's okay to be here and it's okay to speak. If I'm shy, when I'm ready, if I'm not shy, whenever, okay to speak.
Jason:Vern. How did you get involved with this work? How long have you been doing it?
Vern:Since September of 2001,. So about 25 years. Steve Spitzer, the founder, invited me to help Ed Devins at the time and I said no. I called him up a few weeks later I said I'll help in the first cycle. I go in about twice a week now and I haven't stopped in that 25 years.
Jason:So what changed from no to? I haven't stopped.
Vern:Well, I wanted to be helpful. I thought it was something powerful and useful that he was doing and trusted Steve's instincts about the healing that it might provide. What I discovered is that the healing was more deeply felt, as deeply felt in me as in anyone else. So I wasn't there to give something out. I was there simply to be, as Amber said earlier, one of the peers in the circle.
Amber:And Fez, did that pan out in your experience in terms of the circle keepers or facilities?
Fez:or however they were called. Well, I've come to realize that a lot of people, when they get to Jericho Circle, they're ready. They're ready to start changing their lives, and that's my experience. Most people that come to Jericho Circle is because they know there's something there that they want to change. And, as far you know, yes, there is structure in Jericho Circle and that's the key thing. We want to make sure that everybody always feels safe At any point in time when you're doing work. It's an individual thing. We ask who wants to do work today. So the individual is because he wants to do work and at any point in time we tell him if you feel unsafe or anything, speak up. We're here for you, to support you and, again, like I said, we don't give advice, we don't give opinions. We let you, the individual, figure it out and we just guide you. We just put forth healing and hope that you find that healing that you're looking for.
Jason:So what's your role now? As with the Jericho Circle, I mean, you're out of prison, right? So you went through the program, you were doing the circle in prison as a participant for years, yeah Right. And now you're outside, but you're still connected.
Fez:Yeah, absolutely, this is family. You're still connected. Yeah, absolutely, this is family. I mean, when you go there, people share very deep traumatic events in their lives. We're there supporting them and we break bread. There's a saying that we use in prison Once you break bread with somebody because you don't break bread with just anybody, and when I say break bread, it's you eat with an individual.
Jason:But you feed it to your camel, yeah.
Fez:Even if it's the meat you fed to your camel.
Amber:At least you're doing it together.
Fez:But once you do that, you build a certain bond. You know it's different. So I'm still involved with the Jericho Circle. Out here it's called the man Project, out here or Mankind.
Vern:Project, but also Fez joins us at Bethany House in Millis. We meet every other.
Jason:Saturday for three hours. And what is Bethany House?
Vern:Bethany House is a halfway house for men released, so there are residents there and we work with them and those who come in, like Fez from Worcester or some other area, and we're looking at forming one as well in Springfield. We've had them in Mattapan, dorchester, other locations, west Roxbury. We've had other circles but this is the active one now.
Jason:And Jericho Circle is mostly Massachusetts. I know you're in Connecticut now, but where else?
Vern:Well, we're at Warren in Maine, which is about 1,000 residents. We have been in ACI in Rhode Island, but not currently. It depends on staffing and people that are available, because you have to commit to and be there two people at least every week.
Jason:And you've got like a million dollar budget and it's coming from the federal government, right?
Vern:Negative the money is dear. It comes from contributions from participants and we don't get any state or federal funding, and not very much. We have some grants, but they're small $10,000, $5,000. It doesn't sustain us very long. The weekend intensives have costs. All the people who participate are volunteers and paid no mileage, no stipend, no gratuity.
Amber:Wow, that's a lot of big hearts right there A lot of big hearts.
Jason:Yeah, I mean hopefully just talking about it. I know that you and some of the other folks that we've met with Jericho Circle are on a push right now to try to get the word out about Jericho Circle. So, you know. Hopefully this podcast will help do that and other things that you're doing. Are there other ways that we or others can help promote Jericho Circle out in the world? What do you think?
Vern:Well, I would say we work with CPA and I know the acronym. I'm sorry.
Jason:Community Partners. It's Community Partners in Action, which is an amazing group here in Connecticut.
Vern:And they're well-funded and have some really solid operations and we've partnered with them on a couple of things, doing some training. But your question, what can people do? I think I would say the first thing is to get involved in a giveaway. It's to see the action, the results, the involvement, the gift in return from volunteering going inside. It's amazing.
Amber:You referred to circle keepers and I would imagine different ways of volunteering are very similar. I know that I find, as a circle keeper, I often am so blessed and supported by my circles that I'm like I'm receiving a gift right Like this is the gift that I'm receiving and I would imagine, whether you are circle keeping or you're doing some admin work or you're doing some different things that are supporting this type of work, that is very, very rewarding.
Vern:It is and what we do call the men inside, and we also work in Framingham, so there are women in the program facilitating and, as participants, those who pick up skills and their facilitation skills, questions to be asked, ways to hold the energy and the pain and the difficulty. So we offer the training and when someone gets to a point as with Fez, who's a bright guy and very able, very skillful when they get to a point like Fez, we call them circle guides.
Vern:Love it and they are people who can raise their hand and say I'll facilitate. You got an issue, let's bring it into the center and go for it and fez.
Amber:What has that meant to you?
Fez:it means. It's everything it's like the responsibility of it is an honor. You know that somebody's trusting you enough to come to you with an issue he's having or been dealing with all his life and he wants to work it out and wants you to facilitate it. That's awesome. I see it as an honor. I'm honored that you're picking me to facilitate you.
Amber:And at one point in your life that isn't even something that would have registered, or you? Would have even imagined would be available to you, or you might even want to do.
Jason:Yeah absolutely so. Taking it back to when you went in, when you were first incarcerated, all you were thinking about was getting even retribution and that sort of thing, yeah.
Jason:And what you're describing now is a person who gives back to others very generously and you know you use the word family, but like it's very loving, and so it sounds like you've really gone through a huge transformation personally from where you were to where you are. A lot of it you would credit, based on what I'm hearing, to that native circle which then evolved into being able to participate in the Jericho circle.
Fez:Yeah, that is a big part of my life.
Fez:The native circle and then evolved into being able to participate in the jericho circle. Yeah, that this is a big part of my life. The native circle and jero circle the big part of my life. They are my life. You know, the teachings and the lessons that I've learned in both circles have changed my perspective, my life completely, and I'm hoping that you know eventually pay it forward and leave something behind so the other generations can utilize the same techniques and grow from it and how did you eventually come out?
Jason:did you serve the whole time, like you talked about at the beginning?
Fez:I did 22 years. I ended up doing 22 years out of 29, and and when did you come?
Jason:home.
Fez:It was 20. I've only been out five years so it was like 2020,
Jason:around there, so you came out during the pandemic.
Fez:Right before the pandemic.
Jason:So you've been incarcerated all this time for years and you come home and the whole.
Amber:Social distance.
Jason:I didn't mind it. What was it like to come out and hear people comparing COVID isolation to prison?
Fez:Right, I used to laugh about it. It was like to me it was nothing. It was like I don't mind being in my house all day, or it's me, it didn't affect me, it was freedom.
Jason:right, it was freedom this is freedom. Yeah, and do you feel that being? I mean, emotionally, it was good to be connected to Jericho Circle and you had all those supports which I'm assuming you know. It sounds like they stay with you, but did you have other barriers to rebuilding your life and starting over?
Fez:Yeah, absolutely. I relocated to a different city and I was at a halfway house working. So I came off and running. I already had plans. I was working when I went to a pre-release they got me a job. So I was already working at Matt's and Neil's great restaurant. I was working for them six months before I actually got released. They offered to keep me because I was a good worker. So I had a job once out.
Fez:They got me a car. Wow, they got me a car. I had to pay for it, but they got it for me. I said it's here, so as soon as you get your license you have a car. So that first day rmv had to get my permit, everything. So within a month I already had my license, had my car, was working. So I just which I have to say that I didn't expect this to happen but I did get anxiety and I didn't know what it was at the time. This was like a few days after getting out of prison. My friend Matthew, he had just gotten out too, like a week later. So we met up, we go to the store and I'm there. I'm like yo man, I don't feel right. I was having a panic attack but I didn't know what it was at the time.
Amber:I never experienced that you're like am I having a heart attack yeah, I'm like what's going on?
Fez:am I having a respiratory?
Fez:problem right but you know, because I came out so focused on what I had to do, like license this, that dude I I get. I didn't give myself time to adjust. I was just I gotta get this done-boo. And then so when that hit me, I'm like I didn't know what it was, it just freaked me out. So I ended up going to therapy. I ended up, you know, I went to the hospital and got, so I was seeing therapy.
Fez:Ginger, her name was Ginger. A lot of people you know frown upon that, especially men, that it's not manly, that it's not good. If you need help, do it. I did it. And then she helped me a lot. You know, her thing was well, you know, you're shocking your system from basically a structure that everything is laid out for you to now you have no structure at all. You're completely open. So it's a shock to the system, whether you may think mentally I'm ready, I'm ready, but physically your body is not used to it and it reacts differently. So you, your body is not used to it and it reacts differently. So you know, we worked out plans and stuff like that to accumulate my substance. Her thing was go out more experience life, different scenery, different places, because you're so stuck for 22 years.
Fez:It was just in one spot you know so and that's what I did, and I did that and it helped, but like and then. So I was still involved with jurical circle and the good thing is that the doc has come to realize that telling inmates or people that get out of prison that they cannot have contact with other inmates is no good. They came to the conclusion and listen, these guys have a structured support network in here. If we let them leave and then we tell them you can't have contact with your support network, not like that, most likely they're going to end up back in prison. So they've latched on that and now they've allowed people to have contact with. Normally you wouldn't be able to. So they've latched a lot on that. I'm very good at talking about that because, especially especially now, jericho Circle. You know we got members that were in with me in with me in prison. Now we're out here and we're having circles out here together. You know how amazing that is.
Jason:Normally in the past they wouldn't have allowed that, you wouldn't be able to do that you say in the past, but you know that's the exception, not the rule in this country, from what I understand, and so that's wonderful that you've been able to make that happen, and it sounds like Vern played a role in that?
Fez:Oh, absolutely.
Vern:For Jericho Circle, the Mass DOC set up a mentor program and 10 of us started and so when Fez and another man from inside got together with us, the mentor, that was a approved, sanctioned event and we had the responsibility as mentors to respect absolutely that. No messages, no information go through the wall over, the wall inside. So that's some we just have. We must respect that requirement because we're not messengers and that we are not intended to be and it has worked very well.
Vern:So we gather in these community circles, and they are growing, to bring peace or healing in the community. But as mentors, we have the capacity to call these circles and allow men who have been inside to come together.
Amber:Well, I think that, as Jason said, this tends to be an exception, not necessarily a rule. I can think of a few other examples where this has been allowed. So, for instance, rehabilitation Through the Arts in New York has an alumni program. They have the theater program, the arts program inside and then out when they are released. They have an alumni program which is not related to circles, but it is related to mentoring and togetherness and support through a different type of mechanism which is the arts.
Amber:And so I think, fez, you said something that's so important. It's the exception, not the rule, but I've seen the difference that it makes. It meant everything Right, I saw when it wasn't happening, and now I've seen the change and it's made all the difference. And I want to ask you just some sort of logistical questions about Jericho Circle. How do people find out about Jericho Circle when they're inside, and do they have to be referred? Do they have to meet certain requirements? How does it work to access a circle while they're inside? And then what does it look like when someone's released? How do they access it at that time? And finally, tell us a little bit about the intensives.
Vern:Okay, first, inside, we advertise we're up on the bulletin board at Shirley Max we've been Shirley Medium, Concord when it was active, Bay State when it was in operation, Walpole, Norfolk and put it on the bulletin board and invite guys to sign up and look at the truth of themselves. They sign up. We had a waiting list of about 400 people in Norfolk at one point. That was a challenge but we worked through it. Three circles on Tuesdays, one on Wednesdays. So sign up. It's a program and the parole board knows about it and encourages it, suggests it in the Compass program profile for each person inside.
Vern:Jericho is often included because with other things like restorative justice, it pursues emotional maturity. As to outside, JerichoCircleorg has a website. We encourage people to go there and for men inside being released we say call Jericho. There's a phone number, it's listed on the website, it's listed on cards. Make the call, You'll talk to a mentor, he will connect. We'll have dinner with a group of the staff, the people who go inside, and we will line you up with what resources we don't provide health cards, transportation. We are there to support the emotional health and emotional adjustment that Fez talked about. And you asked the third question.
Amber:Tell us about the intensives.
Vern:It's about 22 contact hours Saturday and Sunday. We have a staff meeting Friday night, then go inside 8 o'clock Saturday morning, so we might be in there 12 hours, 11 hours, 10 hours. We have some processes in a large circle like a check-in and check-out, and we have some that help to examine history and going forward. How am I redeeming myself? That's a trigger word, but how am I reorienting my path? And about half of our time is in small circles. So there are eight to 10 people and there's an opportunity to go deep and work. That's intensive because it continues through the day and it's fairly rapid shift and movement and we're tired at the end of the day. All of us. We do that about twice a year in Norfolk.
Fez:Yeah, vern was talking about when guys get out here. The important thing is making sure that we keep the integrity of the program. Our interactions with Jericho Circle is on a professional level and we keep it that way because we don't want to mess it up for the other people behind us coming after us. You know, if we have a circle coming or something like that and you want to get to it, well, this guy lives here. He can probably pick you up in that capacity. So just make sure that it's put out there.
Fez:And the intensives, oh they're amazing. I mean I did three in Norfolk and I visited one out here. At the time I was working so I couldn't really go, but I stopped at the campsite and I was there a few hours and participated and they're very intense. You know, like I said, we go into different groups, circles, and you become familiar. We give out little rocks. I got to go collect my rocks too from other people. You know little things we do and we break it up into little games 5Ds and stuff like that. But it's an intensive week, like you're going to be drained, like you go in there, you're doing work, you're working on yourself and you're there all day, you know by the end of it you do feel drained and you got to take that time to decompress and gather yourself afterwards.
Jason:Can you give us a picture of your life now? We talked about your picture, you know, describing your life before all this started. What's now? Are you working, Do you have? We talked about your picture. You know, describing your life before all this started.
Fez:What's now? Are you working? You have a relationship, do you have? What's going on? So now I'm working for Greenwood Roofing Services.
Fez:I started out as a, so I've always worked in the kitchen aspect, so I stayed at Matt's and Leo's when I first got out. I worked there for a year and some change, but the drive to commute was too far so I started working that in 99. While working the 99, my good friend said you can come work with us. So I started working with him. So I was working during the daytime in the stone yard which is basically breaking rocks. They do vinyl tiles like rocks, so basically rocks into conveyor belt. I did both jobs. I would leave one job, go to. I did that for almost two years and so then I decided I was gonna get my cdl so I started like after. So I was working the store yard in the morning, going to the restaurant night. Wednesday nights I would have to go to school, and saturday and sunday I was going to school driving to near new hampshire for the school for New England tractor trailer school. So I did that. I graduated.
Fez:Unfortunately, because of my felony record I was having trouble finding a job. Driving like it was horrible, like. I drove one time to North Carolina to school after being a week, they let me go because of my thing. Then I went to Alabama. I was there a few days and they let me go because of my past. So a good friend of mine which was part of the Native Circle, he told me hey, listen, they just lost their driver here in Greenwood Call. So I called, I started working for them as a driver, driving the trucks, dropping off, picking up materials, stuff like that. And then I got promoted.
Fez:So now I'm the warehouse manager right now. So now I run that warehouse and I got married, I got two dogs. Those are my kids, they're dogs. So I mean life is good. I mean I'm still involved doing things that I love Native Circle, jericho Circle, working. I work hard, I work a lot, but it's good. I mean Sounds like a full life, absolutely. Then again, my mindset is different than a lot of people. You know, people get caught up in these insignificant things and I'm like, listen, I'm lucky to be out here.
Amber:You're like I learned what's important in life, right yeah?
Fez:absolutely. There's still people that I'm in touch with that at this point are never going to get out. You know what I mean, even just the life I took. So the way I see this, I'm putting forth healing, love and trying to contribute something bigger than me. I want to feel by the end of my journey that, yeah, I messed up, I did a lot of things, but I made up for it at the end. I made up for it with interest at the end and I contributed to make up for all the bad and stuff I did. So that's my mindset. I try to put forth love and try to put healing out there in everything I do.
Amber:I love that, fez. I want to point something out that really touched me that you said you know you were talking about the time where you were working several jobs. You were trying to do something for yourself. You're trying to advance and we often hear people that have similar experiences, and when I often talk to potential employers and things like that, I always say to them if you would like the most reliable workforce right or the hardest working people, yes, please consider individuals who are on their path to healing after incarceration, because you will find that your story is not unique in that many individuals who are just trying to make it after they're released are the most reliable. They know what they have to lose. They're so thankful to be moving forward and having that mindset that you just described, and thank you for so vulnerably sharing your own experience.
Amber:I think this is a good segue into my question. That is pretty typical for the time where we move to wrapping up our podcast. What I like to ask people is if you had one piece of advice for someone who was at the beginning of a journey that was similar to your own, what would that advice be?
Fez:I'll tell them to utilize what I utilize Three steps Focus on growing spiritually, mentally and physically. If you focus on those things, you'll always proceed, move forward, always grow as an individual, and that's what I did in my journey. And that's what I did in my journey. I focused spiritually. Always feed that spiritual aspect of me. Mentally. Don't stop trying to learn, Always continue to learn. Grow mentally. Knowledge is power. You can never know too much. And physically, this vessel that we're utilizing borrowed time, take care of it. Take care of it.
Amber:It'll take care of you. If you focus on that, you'll do good.
Vern:I love that. Vern, do you have any last thoughts? Yes, thank you. I would say the spiritual, mental and physical health also bring psychological and emotional health with them. They come along as passengers and it allows a maturity and I love doing lodge with Fez outside now and community circles with him. So it's about taking the step, being vulnerable and getting involved.
Amber:All right, thank you both. This has just been a really amazing conversation, and the work that you're doing cannot be highlighted or uplifted enough.
Jason:It was a real pleasure to be here, actually with the three of you I want to highlight without I don't want this just to go by without acknowledging that Amber has done a tremendous amount of work in the world of circles, both researching, taking training and then introducing them to us at Restorative Action Alliance and leading circles, which she's been doing for a number of years, both in-person and virtual circles using the computer with Zoom and that sort of thing.
Jason:Amber, it's always an honor to be doing this podcast with you and this work with you. Vern and Fez, thank you so much for being here today and talking with us. It was wonderful to hear. I knew a little bit about Jericho Circle before we started, based on some of our conversations, but I've learned so much more today. I hope our listeners have learned that it's either sparked them to get involved with Jericho Circle if they're local and they can, to reach, reach out to you if they can, or to seek out ways to do things similar in their own communities. So thank you so much for being here and until next time, Amber.
Amber:We'll see you next time.
Outro:You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. For more information, episodes and podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoicesshow.
